After 4 pages, the thread is wondering. I was responding to the subdiscussion about options in the US. Here the minimum emission levels for a new diesel are Tier2 bin5. Sounds dirty, but that is the exact same minimum gasoline cars have. Hybrids are cleaner, but the majority are still buying traditional petrol cars. In federal states, the Camry is only T2B5. So are some of the Fusions. In California, the Camries get a higher rating. One up to PZEV. the other 2 up just one bin. The Fusion has it cleaner engine go up higher, but the bin5 doesn't move. The Dodge and Chevy were at bin4 not matter what state. Compare Side-by-Side We see the same with diesels. These examples are T2B5 in federal states. For CARB they go up a rating bin. Except for the Cruze. Its emissions score stays a 5, but it is certified for the upcoming Tier 3 regulations. I don't know how comparable the others, diesel and petrol, will be when they are required to do so. Compare Side-by-Side So, discounting a diesel option because they are dirty is a false conclusion. It might prove to be so in specific model comparisons, and vice versa, but among broad categories diesel passenger vehicles are as clean as gasoline ones.
You want the actual emission levels, and not the rating found on the window sticker and Fueleconomy.gov? Might be here: Annual Certification Test Results & Data | Cars and Light Trucks | US EPA I don't have the time to check it right now.
On about the emission of Peugeot 308? I think that comes the closes to Auris HSD in size, power, fuel economy, etc.
It is. The same class as the Ford Focus. The new 308 is Euro 6 with some Euro 5 dotted about, but by 2015 they will all have to comply with Euro 6. Unfortunately the focus is on CO2 emissions but only from a historical point as tax amounts depend on CO2 emissions. That's why many manufacturers crave to get below the magic 100g/km.
Jetta TDI was ranked by greenercars (an environmental group's site) based upon California's emission categories & overall estimate of manufacturing to recycling life It carries a higher greenscore (45%) than the Tesla EV (38) which many think of as a "clean" car. So the diesel is cleaner than the electric. In fact its cousin the Passat TDI carries a "super ultra low" rating in the state of CA (same as a Prius but minus the 150k warranty).
The GreenerCars.org list of the greenest cars is here: Greenest Vehicles of 2014 This list has 2 EVs, 6 regular hybrids, 1 plug-in hybrid, 1 CNG, and 2 likely regular gassers. No diesels at all, but the Jetta Hybrid's score of 53 is enough to make this list. The top score is 59 for a Smart EV. The U.S. version (Prius c) of the hybrid mentioned in this thread's title (Auris) scores a 57. The free portion of this site displays only top and bottom performers. The full list appears to require a subscription.
No, the hybrid Auris has the same powertrain of a Prius Gen3 with improved emission reduction, CO has been halved and HC has been reduced to a third, so you can't find its values on a US-only list. These are the official EU values for a Prius and a Auris MK2, and this one for the Jetta MY2013. Values for 2014 models still aren't listed. The powertrain of the Prius C in Europe is sold inside a Yaris (built in France), incredible how Toyota managed to put it inside a smaller car. You can see its emissions values here and HC and CO are on the same levels of the Prius because they put the "old" Prius C powertrain as-is.
Well it all depends on the formula used to calculate the score, it has a bit lower medium mpg (being bigger) so a bit higher CO2 rating value.
There are several diesels on the greenercars list but as you say, it requires a subscription. The Jetta TDI carries a higher greenscore (45%) than the Tesla EV (38) which many think of as a "clean" car. So the diesel is cleaner than the electric.
from now on your name is Troll Heagy I mean really? Why three+ threads about diesel hybrid and in all you are repeating your self all over again.
Yeah that's a possibility and I've fallen out with him in the past. But a lot of people on this forum like the Prius because it's economical, especially compared to the other cars available to them in the USA. They just don't get the economical cars we get and think of the Prius as almost magical. It's nice to give alternative ideas or suggestions or solutions. Some US members will dismiss diesel out of hand because they remember a crappy diesel car from 1982, and I too wasn't a fan of diesel because their smog emissions were so much higher. But the latest Euro 6 diesels just being released this year match petrol for NOx and are significantly cleaner for soot than petrol. It now appears we're at the stage where diesel will now actually cleaner than your average petrol car. And remember, a hybrid isn't of use to everyone. My neighbour tows a trailer from the north of the UK to Austria every year when he goes skiing. Try that with a Prius or Lexus CT200h. So despite Troy having a little 'pro diesel campaign', I don't think it does any harm. How boring the site would be if we all just sang the praises of the hybrid?
Having one I will say "the Prius is a great car", but it is not now, nor will it ever be the only best or smartest car to own. A person or persons can justify "their" reasons for buying one, but stating or implying that everyone else is wrong if they don't, is just self-righteous arrogance. Not everyone likes the same flavor of Kool-Aid, in fact some don't even drink it.
IMHO this is the kind of statement that loses you a lot of respect / credibility here. Yes, according to the formula used by this site a compact diesel is greener than a $100k electric super car. Ok, great. It also scores 10 points lower than the leaf, Prius, etc and lower than a number of non-hybrid gasoline vehicles. When you pull out random pieces of information and mash them together because they support your opinion while ignoring the data that contradicts it, you shouldn't really be surprised when people call you out on it. FWIW here are how some different vehicles stack up on Consumer Reports estimated total cost/mi to own and operate over 8 years. Seems its not even as good as cost / mile is the same. Toyota Prius C: $0.36 Scion iQ: $0.38 Chevy Spark: $0.39 Honda Fit: $0.39 SMART ForTwo: $0.40 Toyota Prius IV: $0.41 Honda Civic Hybrid: $0.42 Ford Fiesta SES: $0.43 Toyota Corolla: $0.43 VW Golf TDI: $0.45 Kia Rio EX: $0.45 Fiat 500: $0.45 VW Jetta TDI: $0.46 Ford CMAX: $0.47 Chevy Cruze Diesel: $0.50 Chevy Cruze Eco: $0.53 Rob
Calling someone "troll" is no different than using the words "a--------" or "b----". None of these three words belong in a polite conversation between adults. It is uncivil. And no I don't mind disagreement. I expect it since I embrace IDIC philosophy.
If the Auris 1.4 liter diesel were available in the US, I would have bought that instead of the Prius or Civic hybrids. Diesels sound cool, have plenty of torque, and routinely exceed their EPA score even when driven hard. (Of course a diesel-electric would be ideal. Hopefully Toyota or Honda or GM make one someday.)
