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Question wrt onboard MPG calculation

Discussion in 'Prius v Technical Discussion' started by nsfbr, May 12, 2014.

  1. nsfbr

    nsfbr Member

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    So, it is widely recognized (true or not, probably true) that the onboard reporting and calculation of mpg on the Prius, v included, is somewhat optimistic. I'm trying to understand why, whether or not it is so in a consistant way. The latter is because multiplying by a constant is somewhat easier than always keeping a log when I buy gas (which I'm not going to do), and whether or not there is a way to calibrate it.

    A bit of background: I regularly used Enginelink to keep an eye on things that interest me. I find this tool fascinating and quite useful. One thing I've noticed however is that the speed it reports is different than the one I see on the dashboard. My first instinct once I noticed this was to find out which was correct. The answer, as you might expect, was neither. Using several different apps that give speed with the GPS from my iphone, I've seen that when I'm in cruise control at 55 on straight level ground where everything should be correct, I'm really going about 54 - 54.5. Probably closer to 54.5, but definitely not quite. So say, 54.4. That is, the car's display is 1.1% optimistic or so. I actually think it is closer, as the speedometer spends more time at 54 than 56, but until I get so OCD that I map this out from 50 to 60 or so I'll call it 1.1%.

    Now, what does Enginelink tell me? According to the OBDII data, the car is going 52.3 or so. Huh? So, I'm wondering if what I see as MPH (right out of the custom PID file for the Prius) is a calculated value and incorrect for the V. That is a distinct question, and only somewhat related to the overall topic, I know.

    So there are several different things here that I hope to get educated on. First, how is the onboard mpg calc done, and if it is just consistantly biased in a way to give owners (and buyers and the EPA) a warm fuzzy rather than correct information, does anyone know of a way to adjust this? Second, vehicle speed - why in this day and age, on a car that has GPS even, does the speedometer have to be off? Can this be adjusted. (Note: the car has just about 5k on it, so tire wear isn't an issue, but will tend to make the speedometer become more optimistic with age.) Third, do I need to create my own MPH PID for Enginelink with the proper, for the v. I see the MG2 RPM and MPH is really just MG2 x ratio. Heck, even I can fix the ratio by the venerable trial and error method, even though I could probably dig up the final drive ratio and do the math.

    Sorry this is long. It has just been bugging me. (And largely because of the knowledge in the back of my mind that my now getting 55 tank average mpg according to the car, really means something less if I cared to maintain a log, something I'd have done ten or twenty years ago, but can't deal with now.

    Thanks to anyone who helps on this trivial quest.
     
  2. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    I think mine is 4% high, but the math is simpler if I subtract 2 MPG
     
  3. xliderider

    xliderider Senior Member

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    You can use Fuelly to track your mpg. Just record your odometer reading at each fuel up and enter on the website. Fuelly will calculate everything, even graph it out, so you can see trending.
     
  4. nsfbr

    nsfbr Member

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    Thanks xliderider. I have seen Fuelly, but part of the problem is that I don't want to have to deal with this in real time. Well, that and I'm possessive enough about the car and I don't want to have the inevitable discussion with my better half about why she didn't record mileage and how much gas she put in the one time in however long she has to do so. Recognizing one's weaknesses and all that.
     
  5. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    Fuelly is forgiving of occasional misses, it just starts calculating again. If she does the fill ups more than 20% of the time, it would be poor accuracy.
     
  6. nsfbr

    nsfbr Member

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    Huh. I didn't know that. So, regardless of my larger quest (and question) I should probably consider doing that anyway. Thanks to both of you.
     
  7. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    You can also update Fuelly with a very simple text message.
     
  8. rdgrimes

    rdgrimes Senior Member

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    Its actually VERY accurate, but based on an inaccurate odometer. The speedo is about 3-5% fast (depending on actual speed), which is why the MPG displayed is also off by the same amount. It's pretty consistent, so assuming its 2MPG off is reasonable if you're in the 50MPG range. Again, how far its off will depend on the average speed for the sampling period, the higher the speed the further off it will be.

    Or use the Android app.
     
  9. BuckyB

    BuckyB Junior Member

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    I use Fuelly too, but it's only as accurate as the data it is given. I particular, the miles driven figure is what the car's odometer is reporting. If the car is slightly under-or-over-reporting the distance, then Fuelly's MPG calculation will be off by at least that same amount. Also, we don't know how accurate the "gallons dispensed" figure that the gas station's pump reports is, although I'm sure there is a governmental agency that controls this. Therefore, I would suspect the car's mileage figure more than the pump.
     
  10. rdgrimes

    rdgrimes Senior Member

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    Gas station pumps are mainly regulated by states. Enforcement is slack at best, nonexistent in most cases. Independent and state-sponsored studies of gas stations have been done, revealing that the gas itself is sometimes not what's advertised, and pump accuracy is a moving target as well.

    Here's a state survey done in AZ last year:
    This is why its recommended that for accuracy you always fill up at the same pump.
     
  11. BuckyB

    BuckyB Junior Member

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    Wow, very interesting. I guess I was just being naive expecting that oversight by a governmental agency would assure accuracy. In hindsight, when has it ever?
     
  12. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    I think the state inspections DO protect you from systematic 'shorting' the customer. Errors around a bell curve of the right answer are more forgiven. In the example 12 were 'shorting' the customer, 27 were in the customers favor, not a case of fraud. (and 100 were right on)
     
  13. rdgrimes

    rdgrimes Senior Member

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    I think the measure of "accuracy" is something like 0.5% plus or minus. Sometimes measured in cubic inches per 5 gallon test.

    Lets not get into expansion and contraction with temperature. ;)
     
  14. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    What evidence do you have that the odometer is off, and how far off is yours?

    The odometer and displayed speedometer errors are not the same.

    Many of us have found (via ScanGauge and other engine monitors) that the ECUs internally know the speed fairly accurately, but the dashboard display number is bumped up higher. The odometer doesn't display a similar error. Both my Prii display(ed) speeds 1-2 mph high, but have(had) odometers displays reading 0.2-0.3% low.

    My other past cars also had odometers reading much more accurately than their speedometers.

    If your odometer is really reading high, then go find the class action product liability lawyers who hit up other car makers on similar claims. Both my Honda and first Subaru were covered by such 'warranty fraud' suits, despite mine not having the alleged errors. The lawyers got a big paycheck, the lead plaintiffs got some money, and the rest of us got a 2% mileage warranty extension, on what have been my most reliable cars ever.

    The lawsuit fallout shows on my new Subaru: its odometer is reading 1.8% low.