Arguments for superiority of hybrids

^^^^^^^^^^^ Can this guy pls go away?

Troy,
We stopped listening to you a month ago.

 

I have to mention that 37,000 miles would be 14 months for me, not 3 years. I make a hybrid pay by DRIVING my car. It never pays off sitting in the driveway.

 

We test drove the 2013 version of the Camry hybrid and the 2013 Prius, both as loaners for a couple days when our Tundra got a new frame. Seats were better in the Camry, but the instrumentation was not as effective as the HSI display in the Prius. Camry felt heavier and even as a newbie I could not get the same overall efficiency from the Camry, so we ended up buying a Prius.

As to pros and cons, the intended use of the car and what the hybrid replaces also makes a difference. In our admittedly odd example, the choice of vehicle for our upcoming 15,000 mile camping trip from DC to Alaska and thence down the West Coast to Portland and back to DC turned out to make a HUGE difference. Tundra + camping trailer gets 11 mpg, while Prius + tent gets 52 mpg. But if you calculate the difference in regular gas consumption for 15,000 miles, driving the Prius saves about 1,075 gallons of fuel. If my back-of-the-envelope calculations are correct and gas costs about $5.70 per US gallon in Canada, $4.62 in Alaska, and $3.68 in the Lower 48, the fuel savings on this trip alone is just over $5,000 . Thus, the effective payback period for people using the Prius as an alternative Recreational Vehicle may be far shorter than for those using it to replace a passenger vehicle.
(DW wants me to add that we will be spending some or all of the $5,000 savings on staying overnight at nice hotels and B&Bs when we find them along the way! Cheers!)

 

one thing i always appreciated about the prius and toyota in general (this even happened with my 2004 corolla le) was that they were under estimating their epa fuel economy. unlike ford, hyundai & kia, toyota under estimates- then when you get way better mpg- it's a wonderful surprise. it's another great secret. i have almost always done better fuel economy in both of our prius cars and my old corolla then what was estimated. in fact, when we were on a road trip back in 2005 with my corolla, we got near 45 mpg in highway driving. pretty awesome little car. i still miss the thing.

 

Yep, although I find the same is true for the Hondas we have owned.

The Fit we recently bought is rated 30 mpg city. My wife seems to be averaging around 35 mpg, while I end up in the low 40s. Her result is the more impressive since she is most definitely not an efficient driver.

 

so far, with my honda crv i have only been in the mid 20's mpg. it's awd, but i am hoping for closer to 30 mpg- at least on my mostly highway commutes back and forth to get kids, etc. It's been lower- my best is only 24.5. not thrilled. luckily, we still have one prius in the gargage which we use on weekends.

 

you and your wife are going to sacrifice some creature comforts in your trip...The prius is going to be cramped with all your gear....

IMO You really can't compare an full size truck towing a trailer to a prius with a tent... It's really an apple/oranges comparison. My folks had a 42' diesel pusher RV towing a honda fit. In theory, they could have not purchased the RV and just driven the Honda fit to every state (except hawaii), all Canadian provinces and mexico. They would have saved a ton on fuel, and saved on the purchase of a huge RV, but I'm not sure the "experience" would have been the same, especially when my family joined them on several occasions around the continent.

My hobby is R/C sailing. and my HHR was my primary hauler, as well as my daily driver, when I'm not packing up my boats and shipping them across country and spending money on airlines. my normal drive for an event is 400 miles each way...sometime longer, sometimes shorter. with the HHR I was buying 26 gallons. with the prius I'll be buying 16 gallons. so I' saving ten gallons or about 40 bucks... each trip. Which means either a nicer hotel, An extra round of drinks, desert...

I don't think anyone woudl be able to convince a redneck who drives a lifted F150 with big tires and gun rack in the window that a hybrid or a PEV is superior... Trying to get someone who drives a honda accord to switch over to a camry hybrid, however, could be an easy sell.

 

Neither can I convince them of the utility of education or the harm from methamphetamines.

 

Right. If you finance the car for that 6 years, your monthly payment (car + gas) will be less from the very first month.

I usually keep a car about 12 years, so I *save* $5000 by buying a hybrid (using your numbers), and as you say that is a lot of scratch.

 

No you don't. You make a car payoff by doing things which get you money that you can only do by driving. Any amount of driving *costs* you money (and other stuff as well).

 

Reply to post #88.

Listen to yourself SageBrush...sounding just like those rednecks that make derogatory stereotype remarks about Prius owners. Defining oneself as superior...is also subjective...regardless what they drive.

 

as I calculated before jumping to "hybrid" car.

regular ICE for < 5 years ownership.
hybrid > 5 years ownership

I usually keep the car till the end of life, then sold it right while still having value before drop-dead aka non-drivable.
since my previous car was Hyundai, and I kept for 11 years when electronics/transmission are braking apart down constantly after 10 years ownership.
I have a faith, Prius would last 14 yeas in my ownership.
I do no need 2 door hatchback/coupe since having 2 toddlers and married.

 

He's a Doctor. What else would you have him say to them?

 

Your politically charged words, not mine. However, if you had surmised I consider myself fortunate and advantaged, I will wholeheartedly agree that I am very, very glad, amonst many other things,

• To not be a product of incest, and that my conception was not an instance of rape, "voluntary" or otherwise.
• That your cousins did not have an opportunity to lynch me because I belong to a different ethnic group
• That the communities I have lived in do not languish in WV standards of poverty because merit is derided and suppressed, let alone subsidized.
• That I was taught to not let any bullshyt religion inform findings of fact and science
• That through education I came to realize at an early age that drug abuse is a prescription for failure, while personal health is a key to quality of life and financial success.

 

ICE < 250,000 miles ownership (about 16 years average American). 350,000 for mainly highway drivers.

Hybrid > 250,000 miles of ownership (>350,000 for mainly highway drivers.)

 

1- mile is hardly something to post about.

 

Wait! Couldn't I sacrifice the spouse instead?

But sure you can compare apples (baseball-shaped , red, small black seeds, smooth edible skins) with oranges (softball-shaped, orange, white seeds, stubbly in edible skin), it's just that the comparison is multi-faceted, and I agree that is also the case with the Tundra + trailer vs Prius + tent comparison.
Aside from the fuel efficiency I emphasized in my OP, you have the ease of driving, ease of parking in small towns, crosswind sensitivity, protection from elements and possibly bears, cooking facilities, bathroom and shower facilities, available heating and air conditioning, set-up and tear-down time, and sensation of being in the wilderness rather than dragging an apartment into the wilderness. But having criss-crossed the USA four times with the Tundra + trailer over many months, I have a fair idea of that combo and although I am still fine-tuning the Prius + tent RV, there are clearly a mix of pros and cons across these multiple facets.
RC boats sound interesting. Ever see the old "pond boats" used in the late 1800s and early 1900s?

 

Not so, at least when using a Prius and taking a US business expense of 56 cents a mile.

The savings can be pretty impressive. As a small business owner, I use my personal car and expense business miles. A marginal federal tax rate of 15 - 28% would be usual, and state 5 - 10%. I figure half of my SS payments will be returned to me as a benefit, but the arguable range is 0 - 15%.

All told, the value of the business expense allotment will probably be in the range of (20% - 53%), which amounts to 11.2 - 29.7 cents a mile.

 

So this is what you think of everyone that drives an F150 with big tires and a gun rack...and your a Doctor? Scary.

 

In my experiences in cave diving country, North Florida - the concept of a high tech, aerodynamic Japanese hybrid is fodder for ethnic jokes, or target practice. It's definitely easier to sell snow to the Inuit, than convince them that there are alternatives to burning gas they can sometimes ill afford. Yipes.