Diesel Prius

.. and again take a look at the values in real world driving (spritmonitor) or take those cars to EPA to test them without NEDC cheating.

Some of your listed models:
Übersicht: Peugeot - 308 - Spritmonitor.de
Übersicht: Volkswagen - Golf - Spritmonitor.de
Übersicht: Skoda - Octavia - Spritmonitor.de
Übersicht: Ford - Focus - Spritmonitor.de
Prius:
Übersicht: Toyota - Prius - Spritmonitor.de
Yaris Hybrid (Prius C drivetrain):
Übersicht: Toyota - Yaris Hybrid - Spritmonitor.de

Some of them are really close, but those are all new models, Prius is more than 4 years old. And again Diesel fuel contains more energy per volume, that is why it's more expensive than petrol (not in Europe thanks to different tax). It emits more CO2 at the same MPG number. A correction factor of 10-13% should be applied when talking about raw fuel efficiency.

 

But that website you link to is similar to fuelly but gives the fuel economy figures of owners of PREVIOUS generation vehicles. The brand spankers are improved on economy - just look at the new 2014 Civic compared to the new facelifted Civic released in 2012. The economy is much better due to small improvements. These improvements won't have worked their way into 'real world experience' as yet.

And the other issue is that those models quoted by cmth will all be manual transmissions. Urghh who drives those these days

 

Just about THE ONE thing that America gets right with regard to personal transportation is that Diesels are only popular here when they're hauling tractor trailers or a pair of TruckNutz around.

 

The above comment is an example of irrational prejudice. Diesels are SULEV qualified in the US (as clean as a car can get) and the first three cars to qualify for "tax free" in the UK were all diesels.

They were below 100 g/mile of CO2. That's clean. (Hybrids were still spewing higher levels until the C finally beat the sub-100 goal.)

 

The above comment is an example of irrational prejudice. Diesels are SULEV qualified in the US (as clean as a car can get) and the first three cars to qualify for "tax free" in the UK were all diesels.

They were below 100 g/mile of CO2. That's clean. (Hybrids were still spewing higher levels until the C finally beat the sub-100 goal.)

 

Look again, almost all vehicles that I linked are latest and models with rated MPG. Golf 1.6 TDI bluemotion has 5 more HP than normal 1.6 TDI, my link takes only the new bluemotion with 110 HP. Then Ford is giving the new name Econetic to sub 100 g diesel models. New Peugeot e-HDI has 116 HP that older didn't have. The only mix of previous and current generation car in my link is Skoda.

 

Sub 100 g/mile CO2 diesel or non plug-in hybrid does not exist, even by the NEDC standards. CO2 is not a standard to define a car clean.

 

Not the way I see it.
When Diesels reach parity with "gassers" in real world terms with a winning combination of cost, performance, weight, reliability, and cleanliness then they will gain market share. Until that time, they will have to be supported by subsidies, kick-backs, and rabid cheerleaders, obfuscation, and "statistics"....the latter all to often being confused with "facts."
It might happen in the future but it will happen the same way that it did with hybrids, both the good and bad and the EV crowd is also wading into the "I'm greener than you!!!" goat-grab.
Me?
I'm betting on EV's or some even more efficient PHEV where the "H" is the traditional gas hybrid.
Until then?
I've owned a diesel car before, and it wasn't a pleasant experience.
If choosing an apple over a lemon based on the fact that eating the latter is much less appealing is an "irrational prejudice?"

I'm OK with that.

Example of obfuscation.
Some diesels are SULEV qualified in the US.
How many? Which cars?
What percentage?
SULEV isn't as "clean as a car can get." It's simply a standard that's being met.
I would hope that for $60,000 and above one could meet this one standard.
That's 2x the already inflated US new car average, and that's just the buy-in, and that's also presuming that the oil burner stays clean.

 

I'm a bit suspicious of your numbers.
I looked up the Skoda Greenline. 3.3 L/100km = 71.28 MPG. This is probably a best case scenario (hwy). Notice that this is manual transmission only and mild hybrid. Not exactly in the same league as real hybrid (Prius) that excels in city driving, but closer indeed.

I'm not sure what your problem is. Fuel efficiency of Atkinson engine is very comparable to a small diesel expressed in g/kWh. Yet engine weight and complexity are much lesser. The Europe fixation with diesel (yes I lived there and owned one) had to do with cheaper diesel compared to gasoline. I see that margin shrinking rapidly though. Since USA is the opposite, gas is much cheaper than diesel, small diesels will not be very popular, at least anytime soon.

 

In Europe diesels sell 50-50 with gasoline cars. And just as clean (Euro 6 == SULEV in cleanliness). I'd call that "parity".

As for sub-100 g/mile, yes, cars exist in both diesel form and gasoline form. The small 1.2 and 1.4 liter diesels meet the spec, and now the 1.0 liter Ford meets it too. (I'm surprised you didn't know this already?)

 

Under 100 g/km not g/mile.

 

Diesel is killing thousands say experts, after bullying us into buying the 'green' fuel cars | Mail Online

 

STUDY FINDS FEW HEALTH EFFECTS FROM NEW TECHNOLOGY DIESEL ENGINES

 

Diesel Exhaust

Health Effects | Diesel Exhaust | New England | US EPA

OEHHA Air: Health Effects of Diesel Exhaust

http://www.aft.org/pdfs/healthsafety/fs_diesel0804.pdf

Shall I go on?

 

There's a vast difference between new-technology diesel engines and previous-generation diesel technology, which is what each of those links address. These totally different technologies continue to be conflated. All on-road diesel engines (trucks, buses, passenger cars) are required to meet the current emission regulations to be certified for production.

 

"...Regulated emissions of NMHC, CO, and PM were 95, 98, and 89 percent below the EPA 2007 standard...

...Unregulated emissions that included single ring aromatics, PAH, nitroPAH, alkanes, alcohol and organic acids, hopanes/steranes, carbonyls, metals and elements, organic carbon, elemental carbon, and dioxins/furans were 79 to 99 percent lower than the emissions from a similar 2004 technology engine...." (Page 83)

Source: "Advanced Collaborative Emissions Study (ACES) Phase 1 Final Report." June 2009, Coordinating Research Council, http://www.crcao.org/reports/recentstudies2009/ACES%20Phase%201/ACES%20Phase1%20Final%20Report%2015JUN2009.pdf


"...Regulated emissions of NOx, NMHC, CO, and PM were 61%, 100%, 97%, and 92% below the 2010 emission standards, respectively....

...Unregulated emissions that included single ring aromatics, PAH, oxyPAH, nitroPAH, alkanes, alcohol and organic acids, hopanes/steranes, carbonyls, metals and elements, organic carbon, elemental carbon, dioxins and furans were 50% to 99% percent lower than those emitted from 2007 technology engines tested in ACES Phase 1...." (Page 69 of 70)

Source: "Phase 2 of the Advanced Collaborative Emissions Study - Final Report." November 2013, http://www.crcao.org/reports/recentstudies2013/ACES%20Ph2/03-17124_CRC%20ACES%20Phase2-%20FINAL%20Report_Khalek-R6-SwRI.pdf


Gas 2 | Bridging the gap between green heads and gear heads.