How can one Justify the extra coas of the Plug in?

Interesting. I went through the Bay Bridge in my PiP with the switch set to "2" (had two of us in the car), but haven't looked to see what the toll was, or whether there was any dispensation for having the sticker.

On the Golden Gate, are you sure there's nothing posted at the bridge or approach warning that eligible vehicles are:
During designated hours only, vehicles eligible to pay the $3 carpool toll on the Golden Gate Bridge include:

1. 2-axle vehicles with three or more persons;
2. Motorcycles, as defined and designated by CA DMV, including three-wheeled motorcycles;
3. Buses; and
4. Vehicles with a WHITE California DMV-issued Clean Air Vehicle decal

Now in SoCal there are some experimental HOT lanes up in L.A. that recently changed the rules to allow HOV stickered (both colors) vehicles to ride toll-free (and that toll can reach nearly $10 one way on I-110 HOT lanes during rush hour). Interestingly, the 91 Express lanes, the first HOT lanes in SoCal, does not provide any dispensation for white or green HOV stickers, nor do the Toll Roads of Orange County.

 

The 10/110 Metro Expresslanes are no longer experimental, they deemed them permanent as of last Friday and I expect them to grow it to phase out HOV lanes over time.

Technically the 91 Expresslanes get by as a toll road and not HOT lanes as the tolls are set by a time schedule and are fixed every week, unlike real HOT lanes which vary pricing based on live traffic. Hence they do not need to exempt clean vehicle HOV Stickers.

Another place White vs Green Stickers benefits varies is Hermosa Beach, which only gives free metered parking to White Stickers (specifically not Green).

 

In the SF Bay Area, we don't have the switch on our FastTrak (yet), so I whatever you set it to almost certainly was not a factor. We are warned that if we travel to the L.A. area, that our FastTraks will be recognized, but in single-occupant mode only. I cannot speak for whether there is anything posted on the Golden Gate Bridge, since I never use it. But I have never seen anything at the other toll bridges around here that would give any hint about the applicability of the decals. The discussion about the status of the various roads in the L.A. area just makes my point that the system is designed to trap unwary drivers, who just see "HOV is N+ occupants" (N=2 or 3), but have no way of knowing if their decals apply to this particular road.

 

^^^
Yeah, I know zip about the lanes down in LA as I don't go down there often and I almost never use our toll bridges up here. Heck, I don't even know the details about some of the "Lexus lanes" I've heard about up here. I almost never go near them.

Bay Area Toll Authority - Tolls and Traffic has some discussion about carpool lane stickers.

 

The HOT lanes in L.A. are still in the experimental stage until January, as originally proposed. The Metro board voted to make them permanent, but it doesn't have the authority- that's up to the state legislature, where there is a bill pending to do so.

 

I don't.

It is my money. I buy the car I WANT. My PIP will shortly have a 2015 Lexus RX450h parked next to it in the garage.

 

Don't just assume that PIP will be cheaper to drive than the regular Prius. With the high power costs we have in CA, it will cost just as much for gasoline as to plug in unless you have solar power.

 

"Don't just assume that PIP will be cheaper to drive than the regular Prius. With the high power costs we have in CA, it will cost just as much for gasoline as to plug in unless you have solar power. "

how is that possible ?

Seawolf posted awhile back that break even was a bit over 30 cents / kWh and closer to 4 cents if you want to assume $4 gas.
That's before free charging and no oil changes

 

and gas is more in cali, in't it?

 

Using the word "justify" in the title diminishes the discussion to no more than a debate contest.

 

well said. straw man.

 

It costs me about 36 cents to charge my PiP, usually good for 12 miles. (I pay 12 cents per kWh, although others may pay more here in So Ca). Gas was $4.25 per gal when I last filled up a month ago, but is now around $4.37 near me.
I averaged 54 mpg on each of my regular Prius hybrids, putting the fuel cost per mile at about 8 cents, assuming I would get similar results with a current model non plug-in. EV cost per mile for charging comes out to 3 cents. Granted, it would take a long time to make any significant amount of savings out of the difference, but then I would also have to factor in the higher overall mpg the PiP delivers, currently 186 mpg over 440 miles. At 54 mpg, I would have used 8 gallons of gas costing $34.00,rather than less than 2.5 gallons for $10.00, which to me sounds like a pretty good savings. Now as for the solar option, I would love it! But with an annual electric bill of less than $900.00, the costs don't pencil out for me.
Bottom line: YMMV! But blanket statements like the one about costs in California don't apply to everyone, either.

 

Tier 3 power is $.26/kWh. 3 kWh to go 10 miles per charge is $.078/mile (.26 x 3)

Gasoline at $4.00/gal /50 mi/gal is what my Prius 2 gets is $.08/mile.

About the same cost. The PIP would never pay for itself. Factor in no spare tire, shorter range due to the smaller gas tank, and the bother of having to plug it in every day...

 

I have a full-size spare, and the "bother" of plugging in takes all of thirty seconds out of my day. And, as several of us have pointed out in this discussion, there are other reasons for owning the plug-in version. As for using tier 3 power, there are rate plans available to owners of plug-in vehicles to get lower cost electricity.
What happens to your figures when you factor in that I sometimes go 15, 16 or even 17 miles on a single charge?
The EV estimate is around 12 miles or a little more, but it quite often stretches to moe actual miles traveled. If I drive fewer miles in a given day, which is common, the cost to charge is reduced, of course. I don't think anyone is arguing that the PiP pays for itself, although with the prices some have paid, it well could .

 

And the one PG&E plan available works out to be even more expensive for the PIP for the average homeowner that needs air conditioning during the day.

 

I was replying to the comment from someone that questioned "How could that be possible?" Well, it is.

My bottom line is do the math before you buy. Some people want the HOV stickers. For them that alone makes it worth it. I can't justify buying one over the regular lift back. The economics don't work for me. Yes, YMMV.

 

So my point is not totally lost, what is "justified" for one is not the same for another. This same "discussion" has played out with the hybrid vs gasser, truck vs car, ect... If a person feels justified by what ever reason of proof they follow, then who is anyone else to say they are right or wrong. Even if only speaking purely financial, all parties have different applications. For me the numbers and philosophy do not side with plug-ins as they are now. In fact, the 2010 Prius I bought did not win the number crunch, but I "justified" the purchase anyway. There is no right or wrong as it pertains to one's vehicle, only choice.

I now return you to the regularly scheduled program already in progress.

 

I understood that its theoretically possible - I mean there was some guy on here that was driving it like a race car and getting just 40mpg. I'm sure his range made a winner out of the gas car side too.

26 cents / kWh is certainly high and if you'll be taking it on the highway then that'll cut your EV miles too
but most on here get 30-50% more range than that 10miles you used to support your math.
You also didn't address charging at work but for many that makes it a no-brainer.

Not sure about the "pay for itself" idea but after 13 months I've put 11,000 EV miles on mine.
I'm able to take advantage of free charging about 25% of the time so I calc'd first year savings of $750.
My PiP was just $1000 more (net) than the comparable Prius3 so this was a slam dunk for me and for many on here

 

That depends on whether one's employer has the chargers set to assess a fee. Mine charges $1/hr.

 

Good point Charles
I was referring to free charging but Interesting - is it a good one as in full charge in that hour ?
That'd obviously equate to $3 gas or maybe closer to $3.30

here's a post from Chesleyn who used more realistic numbers awhile back :

-------------------------------------
I did a spreadsheet for Southern California Edison.

I've decided against the TOU-D-TEV plan (Time of Use Domestic Tiered EV Plan).
The reason -- with a drivable distance of only 13.5-15 miles per charge, I would like to charge more often.
I may want to come home, charge the battery, then take off again.

Here is my breakdown:

TIER ----- COST ----- CHARGE ----- MILES ----- CPM ----- CP50M
1 ---------- 0.13 ------- 3.0 ------------- 13.5 --------- 0.03 ----- 1.44
2 ---------- 0.16 ------- 3.0 ------------- 13.5 --------- 0.04 ----- 1.78
3 ---------- 0.25 ------- 3.0 ------------- 13.5 --------- 0.06 ----- 2.78
4 ---------- 0.28 ------- 3.0 ------------- 13.5 --------- 0.06 ----- 3.11
5 ---------- 0.13 ------- 3.0 ------------- 13.5 --------- 0.07 ----- 3.56
Gas ------- 3.94 ------- N/A ------------ 50.0 -------- 0.08 ----- 3.94

Read more: http://priuschat.com/threads/cost-to-recharge-the-prius-plug-in.103045/page-2#ixzz307va4W20
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