How can one Justify the extra coas of the Plug in?

Electricity pricing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It says US is 8 - 17 cents per kwh. That averages to 12.5. But many places have tiered rates.
For Canada is has numbers as low as 5.4 cents for the first 30 kwh (Quebec) and 6.5 to 11.6 (Toronto) plus some fees.

In any case the real cost, for an EV, is the incremental cost. In some places in the US you can get TOU pricing and/or special EV rates which are much lower than average. Each situation might be different. You have to be paying $0.25 - $0.30 per incremental kwh with gas at $3.50 to start to not benefit in terms of cost.

Here's the rough math:
10-13 miles on a charge of 3 kwh ==> $0.10/kwh ==> 2.3 - 3.0 cents/mile
@ $0.30 per kwh it is 6.9 - 9.0 cents/mile
45 - 50 mpg ==> $3.50/gal ==> 7.0 - 7.8 cents/mile

Even if you are at break-even pricing, it still pays to plug in due to eliminating or delaying the hybrid warmup penalty. And, of course you get to defer going to the gas station and you buy gas later.
Of course, YMMV.

Mike

 

Really?! I thought CA and NY offered the stickers for Hybrids.

 

Just the PiP.

 

Well, Sean, you are apparently in New York, according to your avatar. Do you have an HOV sticker for your Prius 3?

 

Yup!

SGH-T999 ?

 

• For regular Hybrid: no Federal tax incentives;

• However, Washington DC exempts sales tax for all cars over 40 MPG City...that's a good one for all green cars!

• As far as HOV, quite a few states give certain HOV access to hybrids (VA, NY etc.).

• Question: Is CA is the only state that restricts free HOV access to Plug-Ins only? Yes AFAIK

I tend to think of CA, VA, and NY as the key states which have HOV incentives that are important enough to drive sales of hybrids and/or plug-ins. In the case of VA, the program is mostly phased out for new owners, but existing owners with HOV plates have a strong incentive to re-buy a hybrid or plug-in to keep their HOV plates.

 

My justification includes stretching the usual 55 MPG to 85 or so averaged over the year. My electric charge comes from solar on my house, or renewable-sourced power from Green Mountain Energy. So, all that petroleum not burned means something to me, and justifies the cost as my donation to the environment.

 

Latest official data for US is from Feb 2014. US average was 10.35c/kWh overall, 11.88c/kWh residential.

Electricity Monthly Update

Rob

 

California has two kinds of HOV decals. The white ones are for 100% alternative fuel (e.g., pure EV, compressed natural gas). The other, the green decals, are for plug-in hybrids, such as the PiP and Volt. No decals are available for non-plug-in hybrids. The privileges accorded to the holders of these decals are similar, but NOT identical: the white decals are valid in some places where the green ones are not. The only way to know what is valid where and when is to consult the vehicle code applicable to a particular road/bridge/whatever. There are no signs to tell you. Determining which code section applies and properly interpreting it is your responsibility; failure to properly ascertain your car's status will not excuse you from the applicable fines for violating it. Different facilities were built and operated under different regulations, so different rules apply.

For example, an HOV lane may have a sign saying that the lane is for an HOV, defined as two or more people. The decals qualify you for traveling solo in this lane. UNLESS an electronic sign says HOV ONLY, in which case you must actually have two or more people to use the lane. So two people constitute an HOV. Unless they don't.

(If you sense a note of sarcasm in this post, you are right.)

 

i think you should take the bath on the prius and buy the chevvy.

 

...Thanks Charles, also in VA you pretty much need a PhD to know the HOV rules. The purpose of the complexity is so we can give MD residents tickets for doing it wrong (out-of-staters have no free, single occupant HOV rights here).

 

To elaborate, California did offer now useless yellow HOV stickers for non-plugin hybrids. They expired July 1, 2011 and were not renewed and aren't being issued. They're useless now. I have them on my 06 Prius and used them a few times, when they still valid.

Current valid stickers are green and white.
Clean Air Vehicle (CAV) Decals - High Occupancy Vehicle HOV Lane Usage
and Eligible Vehicles - Single Occupant Carpool Lane Use Stickers has more details.

 

Know any good psychiatrists...?

I actually bought second hand, which made the differential a lot less, maybe £2k. But If it was just a financial decision it would be hard to justify; I basically wanted to be greener without it costing me too much, plus taking a cost now for reducing my bills for when I retire.

BTW what is all this old tech the US is using for privileges? The old Prius used to qualify for London congestion charge exemption, now only the PiP does. But it's all controlled by cameras, I register my number plate annually and therefore don't get a fine through the post for not having paid. No-one displays anything.

 

1, lol no but maybe I should.

2, Yeah and I fear that's why Toyota UK have priced it so highly. Because to drive into central London you'll save £2,000 a year. But only 200,000 people enter the CCZ every day and that's including pedestrians, on the tube etc. Out of 30 million car owners, they're aiming for a very minor market. Sure it's a market, but there are 60 million other people in the UK who don't live in London and might be interested in a PIP. The HOV zone is CA appeals for a large market in a city centered around the automobile. CCZ area appeals to a small market in an area where you actually do need your head looking at if you drive there

I did want a PIP and if it was priced as in the US it would be a cracker. But the UK version is just a compliance car for Toyota to tick a box. Pretty short sighted and a shame. Toyota market share dropped again last year from 4.14% to 3.91%. Considering the reasonable line up it makes you wonder why; then you look at what they're charging compared to others

 

Just the PiP. To get the incentive the battery must be at least 4.4 kWh which (surprise) is the size of the PiP battery.

 

...averaging about 12¢ per kilowatt-hour here in Tucson, AZ, at the moment.

 

They did in 2005 (in CA), stickers expired in 2011.

 

Darn. We're getting ripped off by SCE here in SoCal. :-(

 

I'd love to go to court (and win!) based on the fact that the "reasonable person" should expect any exceptions to the green stickers allowed in an HOV to be posted. Unenforceable without reasonable notice.

But where are the white stickers allowed and green not? I haven't seen that in SoCal.

 

Golden Gate Bridge is one. I don't know about the other toll bridges in the Bay Area, since they operate under a different set of rules, but I think they also only honor the white decals. The following link is for the Golden Gate Bridge, and is specifically says that the green decals do not qualify.