Anyone else having 12V battery issues?

From my post #66 in this thread
"How inconvenience is it to press brake and power button to put vehicle is READY mode where the large traction battery gets connected to the vehicle power circuits and the ICE will run as needed?"

So READY mode is the way to go if you are sitting and using anything electrical in the car.

In normal ICE vehicle you turn off ICE when sitting because of all the usual reasons; exhaust, noise, save gas. In the Prius all those reasons are mitigated because of the efficiency of the Prius. In the Prius you feel that the vehicle runs the ice minimally so you have minimal exhaust and noise and save gas while the car is in full READY mode and you were sitting.

 

In Ready mode it turns on the climate controls, the dash lights, the running lights, and all manner of other power drains. I don't think it's unreasonable to try and avoid that by using ACC mode. Besides, if ACC mode is useless, why is it there?

 

Why is it there? (Ignition On or ACC mode)

For me it is there to use car electrics for less than 5 minutes. When I need to roll up a window that was left down for example.

From design standpoint, I would guess that it is there to make the Prius more like a traditional car. I would also guess that for safety reasons the main attraction battery must be isolated when not in use, therefore not available to charge the 12 V or start the computer/car.

 

A better question is: Why do people read things into statements that never were said ???
No one ever said that ACC is useless.

What we are trying to say is that it might not be APPROPRIATE, or the best choice, if you need to run any of the electrical accessories for a LONG period of time.

 

It doesn't make sense from an engineering and design standpoint to go to the trouble of engineering two separate modes of operation for accessories like the radio based solely upon the amount of time they will operate, especially without specifically documenting the difference. Why go to the trouble of making two modes without bothering to tell the user that they're engineered thusly?

 

Toyota engineers are not stupid. Their first priority is to design car which works. They have done excellently well with the PIP. Then they must design the car so that it will survive the users without major and frequent repair, especially expensive, repair. The 12v battery is much less expensive than the traction battery. It is very unlikely that one of the purposes of the PIP is to provide a place to listen for hours to the radio without the support of an electric generator. To use READY and thereby the traction battery as a source of electrons is a workaround for those who want to use the PIP in a way for which it was not designed.

This is not a power mode for the unsuspecting to bother the user. Be glad that you have discovered a way to safely expand the use of your car.

 

OMG......it is attitudes like that which have created a users manual that weighs 4 pounds because the first half of it is warnings about safety things that should be common sense.

NOW you want it to be 8 pounds because you want them to warn you about EVERY dumb thing that anyone might possibly do with or to their car........like trying to sit for hours with the radio playing.

I think it already says not to drink the coolant and not to smear used oil all over your body.
What more do you want it to say ????

It seems like I remember that it already says that ACC should only be used for short periods.......but maybe not.

 

Listening to user feedback leads to success, even if you think they're wrong.

The customer is always right.

 

Actually I disagree, listening is one thing, and yes the manufacture may learn something now and then. However; the customer is not always right when it comes to knowing what makes sense from an engineering standpoint. Many of the ideas/desires presented on here are not good ideas and they don't make sense to be implemented. Often here on Prius chat many ideas are conflicting ideas (counter productive to each other) .
If Toyota implemented everyone's wish the car would weigh 50% more, would have to be bigger and would get significantly lower fuel efficiency. Not to mention yet the fact that it would also suffer a substantial price increase.

 

Are you seriously arguing that it's common sense that the accessory mode is only for short periods. How short of a period exactly? 5 minutes, 7, 10?

We weren't talking about hours, but keep on with the hyperbole. It's good practice for a career in politics. That kind of thinking will win you accolades from crooks like Darrell Issa.

How to use the car properly. I'm sorry that you feel like it needs to inform you not to drink the coolant or bathe in the oil as a condition of reporting that listening to the radio might drain your battery in under a half hour.

I guess it's a good thing we're not talking about engineering here, then. Unless engineering now includes authoring user manuals.

You can't roll up the windows in ACC mode.

Also, notice that you have to guess and speculate about what ACC mode is for. Why is that? It's because Toyota didn't document the unusual behavior of their vehicle. As you note yourself, it lends itself to giving the impression that the car will behave like a traditional car. I'm just saying it should warn you that is not the case at all.

 

Can anyone address the apparent IG-ON mode that remote Climate Control puts the car into? If the traction battery isn't in-circuit, how does the compressor run? Yet we know (er, believe) the traction battery is NOT connected if you press the Start button twice and go into IG-ON mode.

A mystery...

 

PIPLosAngeles said:

"I guess it's a good thing we're not talking about engineering here, then. Unless engineering now includes authoring user manuals."

It would be nice in the future if you would pay attention to what I was responding to as you comments in reply to my post here is nonsense.

 

Well, it turns out, the dealer tested my auxiliary battery and it's being replaced. I knew it wasn't normal for the car to be dead in the water after 15 mins on acc. That was just a little too much to swallow. We're all Prius enthusiasts here, even if we sometimes strongly disagree with each other.

I've been involved with businesses for almost 40 years now, and it's all fine to know when you're right, and the customer is wrong, but at the end of the day, all that really counts in business is that the customer is satisfied. If the customer appreciates being corrected, that's OK, but it's not usually the case. There's usually a diplomatic solution which doesn't involve scraping up against the customer's opinion.

 

Well, that is good news and you follow with constructive thoughts.

I have a high level of respect for the PIP and both Toyota engineers and the company in their efforts to be competent and fair. Every time I thought there was something wrong with the car it has turned out that I had something to learn about the way the car works.

As East Rider said, the manual is full of warnings and suggestions to prepare us if we will read them. Every car is a bundle of compromises between cost, weight, power, wind resistance, appearance, convenience and a host of other things in the hopes that a salable, build able, and maintainable package, will result. Some cars are better than others. None are perfect.

I like this one.

 

FWIW I'd say the owners manual does a pretty good job of cautioning against using accessories for extended periods when not in ready mode.

 

Being involved in business for 40 years or not, has nothing to do with pleasing everybody when designing how the Prius works. Some improvements as to functionality may make sense, but many won't. You can't please all of the people all of the time. This is why there are so many different makes, models and different design criteria in the car business.
I know and understand what you are saying about listening to the customer, I spent 36 years in business myself. However; I also understand that you can't have one vehicle design that will satisfy everyone. Just read the wish list for the Gen IV Prius, on this site. Incorporating everyone's wishes offered up there would be ridiculous. That's my point.

Sure you got a new 12 volt batterie free from the dealer, that's great. But you still will find out that continued use of the acc position for extended periods (deep discharging it) of time will trash that battery too.

 

Well, when I took the car home from the showroom, I discussed with the salesman that the battery was probably damaged from all the times it had run flat and had to be boosted. He admitted it had been run flat many times in the 2 years they had it. He also said if I had any problems with it, I should bring it back to be tested and replaced if necessary, which I had to do. I have no doubt that if it had tested OK, they would have let me know it wouldn't be replaced, but in fact, it tested as unsatisfactory, and it was replaced.

This is a simple case of good customer service, nothing more. It's also the reason this dealer is one of the most successful in the area. Treating a customer fairly is what it's all about.

 

FYI,
Toyota did listen to customers in the design of the ACC and IGN-ON modes. Compare the Gen III and PIP with the older generations. The Gen III/PIP in ACC have (I believe) just the radio/audio system on, with the display off completely. In previous generations, as complained about here and other places, some of the display came on wasting power.

Mike

 

Did you check out the doc link?
It was indeed time for a new 12v for GregP507.

 

Tested, confirmed unsatisfactory and replaced.