Next voltec, what do you think of the new rumors

hybridcars.com had a pretty good article on the volt today. fair, balanced. they made some good recommendations for the next gen that would help make it the prius killer that bob klutz originally envisioned.

 

Is this the one you are talking about?
How Much Better Does Gen-2 Volt Need to Be? - HybridCars.com

Lutz's quote there is the Volt was more a Toyota green halo killer than a Prius killer.

I do agree with the article's, "Frankly, if GM can bake in more range, room, and gas mileage, the present price would be far more reasonable." Doing what Toyota did going from the gen1 to gen2 Prius while keeping the price around the same will be great for the Volt.

There is also an article there on the new Small Engine family.
New Ecotec Engine Family For GM - HybridCars.com
"GM also said the new Ecotec engine architecture is designed to support hybrid propulsion systems and alternative fuels.
...
All new Ecotec engines are calibrated to run on regular unleaded gas, stated GM, including the high-output turbo variants."

From a technical standpoint, they should keep premium fuel for the Volt. There is the possible longer shelf life in the tank, and it will allow better fuel economy. These engines are being designed for global markets. Markets that have higher octane regular gas. Like the current 1.4L turbo, these engines are going to be designed for premium. Like nearly every premium fuel car that can be bought now, the ECM just adjusts for lower octane. Which reduces the engines potential power and efficiency.

But, as GM does with the current 1.4L, they will have to label it regular, because the public can't think past the posted prices in large font on signs.

 

Bob Lutz saw Prius as a halo car. He did not realized that it is also an affordable car for the masses. Therefore, Volt missed the mark of the mass market but achieved the halo.

Volt's mission was accomplished but not the actual goal (set by Prius). The question is if Gen2 Volt would be able to follow Prius steps.

 

i disagree. klutz was jealous of all the attention toyota and it's management and engineers were getting from the press. he thought he could one up them and bring the attention back to himself, which is where he was used to it. he couldn't get gm to build the actually wanted, (at least that's his claim) and they wound up with the volt. my take is that they couldn't come up with a hybrid system that worked as well as the prius so they gave up and went for whatever the volt is supposed to be.

 

That seems like a bit of a non sequitur.

Lutz says he originally wanted the Volt to be a BEV but was talked into having it be an extended range design with a smaller battery.

I'm not sure what that has to do with your speculation that GM tried and failed to "come up with a (non-plug) hybrid system that worked as well as the Prius".

I've never seen any evidence that GM tried to design a non-plugin hybrid powertrain for a compact or mid-size passenger car. There is every reason to think they could if they wanted to.

One of the few topics that john1701a and I seem to agree on these days is that GM should design and build their own "Prius class" hybrid passenger car. They claim they have no interest in doing this but I suspect every major car maker will need to sell passenger hybrids in the future to meet the present and next revision of the CAFE standards. They can get by with direct injection and plugin cars of various sorts but there is still likely a place for "old-fashioned" hybrids for many years to come in the mid to lower priced high efficiency market and for those without good plugin recharging access.

I agree it's doubtful that GM could exceed or even match the Prius efficiency on their first real attempt at a small passenger car hybrid effort although they could probably come close. Toyota has more experience tuning and squeezing the last few percent of efficiency by careful refinement and component matching across the engine, motors, and gearing. GM would have a hard time perfecting that in their first hybrid passenger car attempt.

 

"remember the original mission? it was supposed to be a prius beater"

 

Who in GM actually said this? From the quote, Lutz's goal seemed to snatching the 'green' crown from Toyota.
The Volt didn't seem to do that, but it did become a Halo vehicle for GM and helped make the Cruze a success.

I agree they will need one as CAFE gets stricter, but I don't think the pressure is on them to do so immediately. The ICE isn't done yet. The 1L turbo going into the Opel Adam produces the same power as the 1.6L it is replacing while improving efficiency 20%. Much of the gen4 Prius' improvements for fuel economy will be coming from advancements with the ICE.

The Malibu dropped eAssist since the new DI engine with auto stop does just as well as it did. Those that didn't like it being called a hybrid rejoiced, but nothing prevents it from coming back. Perhaps GM will slip it in place of the auto stop when they need to boost the MPG and component prices are lower. There is also the diesel option for CAFE. There is the Cruze now, and the Colorado will be getting a diesel also now. We'll see a hybrid car from then eventually, but it doesn't seem to be something GM feels it needs right now. I personally want to see them expand Spark EV availability before a hybrid.

With Tesla's success, the Volt isn't going to be cancelled. The mystery is what will GM do with the gen2. The Prius path of enlarging it to widen the audience seems the obvious one. They could also keep the size where it is while focusing more on improving EV range and/or price reduction.

 

no idea, you'll have to ask someone at hybridcars.com.

 

Since their quote supporting that stance doesn't, then there must be no one that said it at GM.

 

Poor, poor Bob Klutz, he lets his over inflated ego turn him into a maniac.

DBCassidy

Or, check on the Volt forums. Lutz mentioned in 2011, the Volt would be a Prius killer.

Look how that turned out.

DBCassidy

 

well, perhaps the article wasn't as fair and balanced as i thought. now misquoting gm? someone should take them to task.

 

If GM, and not outsiders, had promoted the Volt as an actual Prius beater, it should be easy to find the info to back up the claim.

 

Rumors, innuendos, and insinuations...have alwys made better press than...facts, facts, and facts.

 

Specially when there are no facts because GM ain't talking.

 

GM has nothing to say now. The next gen Volt has to be a real challenge to win increased marketshare when it is introduced.

DBCassidy

 

Will GM Launch Multiple Chevy Volt Spinoffs? - HybridCars.com

 

If the Volt, to this very day, hasn't beaten the Prius in sales....... Guess what???

DBCassidy

 

What does a comparisons of Prius to Volt sales have to do with whether or not GM claimed the Volt was a Prius beater?

The PPI would likely be beating the Volt now if it were nationwide though.

 

The SALES NUMBERS speak for themselves for the global leader Prius!!

No so for the Volt 'niche' vehicle.

Or, look at it from another angle: Mr. Lutz has destroyed any and all credibility that GM hoped to regain. That in itself is an insurmountable barrier to overcome, even for the current Barra regime. Her plate is already overfilled with the previous leadership of 10 years of not coming clean and upfront with the customers. This does not bode well for GM.

The Volt has been reduced to cannon fodder - never to be takened as a serious contender to be a main stream product.

Sure, say what you want concerning the Volt, but in the end of the sales years, its' the total sales number that counts.

Prius has four expanded models vs, Volts one. GM is too little, too late in the market.

It is high time to wake up and accept the facts and the truth about the Volt beginning to slip into the abyss of the ever competitive market.

Prius, is and will continue to be the market leader.

The Volt, needs to nervously keep a close eye on the Tesla.

DBCassidy

 

Listen, all I said was that GM itself appears to never to have made the claim that the Volt was going to be a Prius beater. Lutz wanted to snatch the green halo crown from Toyota, but beating the Prius isn't necessary for that.

And yet all your responses to my point are about how the Prius is beating the Volt in sales. I never claimed that wasn't so, and have said the PPI could beat the Volt if it was nationally available. The actual sales numbers have no bearing on what I said.