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DIY radar-compatible front emblem ?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Accessories and Modifications' started by kenmce, Apr 9, 2014.

  1. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

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    It appears that Toyota somehow wants $ 900.00 for the radar compatible front bumper badge. Anybody know what kind of plastic it is made of? I'm thinking I could cut out a lexan oval for a lot less...
     
  2. 32kcolors

    32kcolors Senior Member

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    Was it stolen? If so, file a claim with your insurance company.
     
  3. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    3D printing?
     
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  4. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

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    I'm debadging the car and want to take off the oval front badge. Maybe put on a PriusChat badge instead...




    I would still need to find a microwave transparent feed stock.
     
  5. Mike500

    Mike500 Senior Member

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    Most emblems are made of ABS, which is short for acrylonitrilebutadienestyrene.
     
  6. 32kcolors

    32kcolors Senior Member

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    Your OP made it sound like you needed a replacement $900 radar compatible stock badge. As you know, it's totally flat so it's not like you can replace the inlay with something else. However, a fellow member successfully plastidipped his with no ill effect on radar operation.
     
  7. c4

    c4 Active Member

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    Anything non-metallic, non-conductive should be fine. Commercial radomes for antennas are frequently made of ABS or polycarbonate, and polystyrene, PVC and Teflon are also very popular, but pretty much any plastic should be fine. There are many online references on the internet about picking radome materials, but this is a good primer that shows the basic equations if you want to geek out, and also a table if you just want to pick something: http://www.rfbeam.ch/fileadmin/downloads/appnotes/AN-03-Radome.pdf
     
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  8. Easy Rider

    Easy Rider Active Member

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    OK.....gotta ask:
    What is this "radar compatible" stuff ?
    And why are you concerned about it ??
     
  9. 32kcolors

    32kcolors Senior Member

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    I'm not so sure about that as there must be a reason why Toyota isn't using the $35 raised plastic emblem on ATP-equipped Fives. However, nobody to date has done any mod to the front radar-compatible emblem (other than plastidipping) so we really don't know.

    The Advanced Technology Package-equipped Five has a radar mounted inside the front emblem for DRCC (Dynamic Radar Cruise Control) and uses a special flat emblem that apparently costs $900 as opposed to the $35 raised plastic emblem.
     
  10. Mike500

    Mike500 Senior Member

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    I would think that the vacuum deposited chrome coating on the standard emblem would do havoc with the microwaves of the radar unit.

    If you mechanically strip off the chrome and coat it with a black spray paint, you'd probably be OK.
     
  11. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

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    I have the advanced technology package. There is a tiny little radar emitter hidden behind the front logo. The car can use it as part of the cruise control. It will maintain a set distance behind the car ahead of you, even if it changes speed. If you block the radar window (the logo) it can't see anything and won't work.

    I'm liking it. I can buy one on eBay, paint it up, and tape it over the existing logo, see what happens. If works, swap them out, if not little is lost. And it's reversible too.
     
  12. Mike500

    Mike500 Senior Member

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    Is the radar emitter stolen, too?

    If not, it's as easy as cutting a hole in a standard to accommodate the emitter. A black polyethylene sheet or plug. will allow the 2.2Mhz microwaves to pass.

    I know from my experience with satellite TV lnb's that polyethylene is transparent to microwaves. We used to cover them with garbage bags to keep stow off of them.
     
  13. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

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    Nothing is stolen. I just want the logo off.


    The emitter sits back a ways, I believe it uses the entire surface.

    I gather it is at some oddball frequency, 7 Mhz or something.
     
  14. Mike500

    Mike500 Senior Member

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    Did you mean 7 Ghz? A 7 Mhz antenna will be about 36 inches long.

    At 7 Ghz, the wave length has to be less than 1 mm. Why is the emitter so big?

    During WWII, it was a monumental task for the British to achieve radar with the cavity magnetron at 600Khz to make radar small enough to be place in a bomber.

    Sorry, I confused my terms, I meant 2.2Ghz for satellite TV lnb's.

    I have not explored it, but I don't know if the technology has been available to achieve a 7 Ghz signal.

    As you can see, my electronics experience is rusty.
     
  15. Easy Rider

    Easy Rider Active Member

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    You need to be careful here.

    At $900, there might actually be something special about that emblem.......like it might be specially designed to be a passive radiator/collector for the radar system.

    Without it, the radar might not work right........and I suspect that it might be hard to test without getting yourself into a dangerous situation.

    It never ceases to amaze me as to what lengths some people will go to get the "look" that they want. :)
     
  16. c4

    c4 Active Member

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    If it truly is $900, it may actually be part of the antenna system like a resonator or passive element that helps shape the beam pattern vs. just a radome (fancy name for RF transparent cover), in which case you should still be able to carefully sand the logo off (stop IMMEDIATELY if you come across any metal in the plastic, as this will be one of the aforementioned antenna elements) then fill/level with plastic model filler and paint with non-metallic paint.
     
  17. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

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    It turns out that all (?) of the chrome do-dads sit on either one or two alignment holes. I'm not up to filling all those holes so the badges will have to stay. :(
     
  18. Ron Jorgensen

    Ron Jorgensen New Member

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    Sorry to bring this back from the dead... I just bought a 2010 Prius V with ATP(1st post). The radar cruise would not work until I took off the emblem. Bang, works like a charm! This car was in a minor front collision some time ago and they must have replaced the $$$ radar emblem with the normal one. I do not have the luxury of keeping the OG radar emblem and I am not about to fork over $300 for a used emblem... Has anyone else experimented with a DIY alternative? I was planning on fabing an emblem out of lexan/plexiglass. I could even heat and bend/bubble it to make it similar to the OG. Thought I would ask about any experience before getting started. All responses are appreciated.
     
  19. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

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    It's OK, we're asynchronous around here.

    I stopped over to see what the Mad Scientists* had to say about it

    Re: Can a plastic that is transparent to visable light reflect microwave?

    A part I found relevant is:

    Dielectrics such as cardboard, paper, clear glass, Teflon, some plastics,
    pure water, and many building materials have low attenuation coefficients
    and a small amount of radio power reflects from them while most of the power
    passes through them (For example, microwave cooking containers).


    There is more info there. My take on it is that you should get a couple sheets of different kinds of plastics and see how it works with just a plain flat sheet stuck over the opening. If the plastic is part of a bottle or something it will usually have a number printed somewhere to say what it is. You might also try a sheet of glass. If glass is a serious contender, consider using a Borosilicate (Pyrex) glass. They have the best mechanical strength. Whichever one works best, that's the one you take the time to machine into something nice.

    These guys:

    RF-Transparent Rooftop Enclosures - Modular Rooftop Antenna Enclosure | ConcealFab

    favor PVC.


    The feds here say:

    All containers used in microwave devices should be made from microwave-transparent material. Examples of microwave-transparent materials include ceramics, sodium borosilicate glass, unleaded quartz, fluoropolymers, and nonpolar plastics such as polypropylene, polyethylene and PTFE compounds.

    When you bake Lexan it tends to stink. If it starts to bubble it is too hot. You can mold it while it's hot and let it freeze into the new shape while it cools.

    Please let us know how you do, the issue is going to come up more in the future.

    *Protip: NEVER let them use your microwave oven
     
    #18 kenmce, Nov 15, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2014
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  20. Ron Jorgensen

    Ron Jorgensen New Member

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    Thanks for the info KENMCE.

    I decided to go ahead and fab something up. Let me try to upload the photos and see how it goes...
     
    #19 Ron Jorgensen, Nov 17, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2014
  21. Ron Jorgensen

    Ron Jorgensen New Member

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    Here is the plastic backing for the emblem. I used my dremel to "nicely" cut out the center section.
     

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