Traded in the PIP for a new 2014 Volt...

One of the biggest moves for EV for me is not only the fact currently it's a little higher than half the price of gas for the same mile - but we're serious about getting a solar array

How is that? I thought the Volt's gas engine is in series and only works as a generator? Does the engine turn the wheels also?

 

This is very tempting. I may need a new car in a couple of years. Do we know how long the tax credit will last?

 

The Volt has 3 clutches in its planetary gear transmission that enable it to mechanically switch between series hybrid and a power-split series/parallel mode vaguely similar to how to Prius operates but with some technical differences.

Of course, it does not use the gas engine at all due to speed or acceleration until the battery is "empty". At speeds under 35 mph when the gas engine is enabled, it's in series mode. During hard acceleration it's also in series mode. At speeds above 35-40 mph holding steady or with mild acceleration (low torque demand) it is in power-split mode.

Under hard acceleration from 50 - 100 mph if the gas engine is running it can contribute some electricity in series mode so the large electric motor can run at peak kW output. When it is only drawing on the battery pack it may not be able to sustain the same peak kW output the entire time. It's not a huge difference but it is noticeable in timed track runs.

 

The PiP gets more economical than the Volt for long trips - maybe 80 or 100 miles, depending on prices in your area, but definitely so for the 180 mile trip.

But you can drive yourself nuts figuring all the factors. Either will be a good car. I say get the one you'll enjoy.

And you can figure you're powering it with solar energy if you like. But really they are separable. Once you have the solar, you're putting clean power back into the grid, decreasing the utility's dirty generation. Now add an EV, and the additional load on the system will increase the utility's generation.

But you will have done your part.

 

As I understand it:

It does, but that's not why. (The engine can help with propulsion when the driving speed is steady, for efficiency purposes).

Acceleration in CS apparently needs to be in series mode. In the case of the prius, extra power needed for [harder] acceleration comes from the engine; in the case of the volt (in cs mode), extra power needed for acceleration comes from the battery. So that means you'd have power from both the battery and the engine available in CS mode. The power curves don't seem to be all *that* different, but apparently cs mode does have a little more power at higher speeds.

That is, of course, assuming the battery has enough of a reserve (the reserve for HV operation). Apparently if you work it hard enough (such as going up a mountain with a steep enough slope, say, pike's peak, without the mountain mode reserve), you can run out of that reserve, and end up in "Reduced Propulsion Mode" till it recovers.

 

Uh, wouldn't that mean that the VOLT would be causing even more climate changing pollution?

 

See the following link for a table of the acceleration differences between EV mode and hybrid mode with the gas engine helping out. It also has a table comparing acceleration performance between the non-plug Prius, the LEAF, and the Volt:

I drove a Volt today. | PriusChat

Colorado has a fairly strong renewable energy portfolio law that requires a steady ratcheting up of near-zero carbon power into the utility grid. It's targeting 20% renewable from 2015-2020 and 30% renewable after that.

Another Colorado law requires major utilities to offer a green power option. For instance, Xcel Energy, which is the electricity utility for Denver, offers a Windsource alternative which can supplement the usual grid or be a 100% carbon-free alternative. And, of course, you could put solar panels on the house to offset the coal in Colorado's default grid power.

 

"Agree on both points.
It would be easier and more transparent if the manufactures got the ($7'500) tax credit, State credits, and local credits and just sell the car with these already subtracted from the selling price.
If you live in Pennsylvania you get:
$34,995 2014 Volt (16.5kWh battery)
-$3,500 Pennsylvania rebates for Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicles (PHEV) (battery 10 kWh or over)
-$7,500 Fed Tax Credit
$23,995 2014 Volt final cost!
I would imagine it would much easier to sell the Volt with $23,995 on the window sticker vs $34,995."

that PA incentive is incredible ! I'd be tempted to replace an older car

Our local Sleazy MA dealer advertised the price already taking the Fed rebate off. Warned my friend there was no way he was getting a Volt for under 30k...

 

fortytwok,

Volt with $23,995 on the window sticker vs $34,995."

that PA incentive is incredible ! I'd be tempted to replace an older car


If I was you, I'd say I had an older car right know! Go for it!

 

Yes, that's the point. With the Volt running on EV and the PiP switching to gas, the Volt would be dirtier. But:

But even in those states, the hope is that grid power will keep getting cleaner. Unfortunately it's been happening more for economic reasons - cheap natural gas - than public policy, but progress is being made on both fronts.

Another confounding factor is that coal plants are harder to turn on and off than natural gas. So if you charge at 4 am, when rates and demand are low, chances are you're using dirtier electricity than during the day.

 

Right, that's the major point of the renewable energy portfolio law. Right now the Colorado grid only needs to have 12% essentially zero-carbon renewable sources. Over the next several years that is required to be at least 20% and then 30% after 2020. This causes utilities to pay for the solar and wind etc. generation which means new or expanded facilities. The new renewable sources displace fossil-based energy from coal or natural gas and the grid gets cleaner for everyone.

Separately, individual consumers can also sign up for an optional alternative renewable power source plan and get up to 100% renewable for their account. Obviously they would still be drawing from the overall energy mix of the grid but all of their power generation bill would be paid to the renewable energy producers and none of their bill payments would go to coal plants. Even if the renewable sources are offline when you charge overnight (like solar) the power will eventually be generated later in the day and will fully offset fossil-based generation then. Ultimately, the only thing that matters is the overall CO2 equivalent gasses emitted during power generation during the course of an entire day, week, or month.

 

My video:

 

EV or hybrid mode?

 

EV mode until the charge runs out and then hybrid mode. It was a 90km trip. I knew/know the owner of the Model S, that's why we had such fun driving 150+km/h (GPS speed).

 

I find the arguments about which of the two or three best cars on the market is the ultimate best to be a bit repetitive. The problem is the people buying at the other end with no real reason.

Off topic a bit. I think you really want a Tesla store of some kind, not necessarily a "dealership" that is independently owned. This is to the heart of Tesla's battle with several states. There is no reason why Tesla couldn't have company owned store stocked with cars ready to drive away...it would just be inefficient, especially for a small company.

I think lots of people would rather have to special order so they get to pick exactly what options they want in the exact model/color they want.
Other people, maybe, just want to drive something home today.
Some people want to haggle...some people detest it.

Mike

 

I don't know if it is different for the 2014 model year, but when I ordered my 2012 PiP, there were exactly 10 factory combinations: 5 colors X 2 trims, plus a couple of dealer-installed extras.

 

That's only because those are the only choices made by Toyota to keep the inventory requirements low to keep the dealers happy. Why not allow someone to get the upgraded Nav on the base? Factory ordering is a different model that could render conventional trim levels obsolete

Mike