Diesel Auris beats hybrid Auris

Where did you see that numbers ? With 15" wheel rims the Hybrid has a combined rating of 78.5 MPG-UK vs 74.3 of the Diesel.

 

Toyota Auris | Specs & Prices | Toyota UK

 

*yawn!*

Tell me when diesel is 40 cents cheaper and demonstrably cleaner than gas.
Other than that?

It's yet another in a loooooooooooooooooooooong list of examples of diesels struggling furiously to be "almost as good" in the 4-5 pax, FWD, small car market ...be it for efficiency, cost, dependability, performance or cleanliness.


Neeeeeext, please.

 

Seems to me from VCA data that the Auris Hybrid ranges from 72.4 to 78.5 mpg imp extra urban depending on version, not 71mpg. Don't see any official confirmation of the new diesel's ratings yet, although even at 83mpg the 10% btu advantage / carbon penalty of the diesel fuel would still erase its advantage even on highway. Its also worth noting that from what I can tell you're comparing a 90hp 1.4L diesel to a 136hp 1.8L hybrid with 15% quicker acceleration if the spec sheet El Dobro linked are the right models.

Rob

 

You might have been thinking of the Yaris hybrid, which uses the 1.5L HSD. Its rated by the VCA at 80.1 mpg imp extra urban, 91.1 urban.

 

I find:
Auris diesel, 75 MPG-diesel combined, 99 g-CO2/km.
Auris hybrid, 79 MPG-petrol combined, 85 g-CO2/km.
Yaris hybrid, 81 MPG-petrol combined, 79 g-CO2/km.

The higher carbon content of diesel is glaringly obvious here.

I don't oppose diesel-electric, in fact it seems that gasoline and diesel technologies are heading towards a convergence. If and when that is achieved, the carbon emissions per km should approximately match, and diesel must produce about 15% higher mpg than gasoline simply due to its higher energy content. But at the moment, the advanced technology gasoline systems, i.e. Atkinson-cycle hybrids, are leading.

My opposition is to the sloppy, misleading, and often outright false presentation by a single member here.

 

Auris hybrid with 15" is rated 79 MPG-UK combined and 80.6 MPG-UK Highway
The excel grade hybrid has bigger, sportier, less-mpg-friendly 225/45/17 tires . Maximum rim size for the 1.4D is 16".

 

With direct injection and what I've read, Hyundai is experimenting with gas engines that don't use spark plugs, soon gas engines will be similar to diesels. I have never driven a diesel car, but I've driven diesel trucks. There are advantages and disadvantages. Generally, it seems like gas/electric is still cleaner and yields a higher performance ratio. Most people complain about how sluggish hybrids are now, so I am not sure if people would accept a new hybrid that is an additional 2 seconds slower to merge onto the highway and pollutes more while doing it. What I really want to see is some kind of solar/hybrid, EV/solar hybrid or a real mainstream hydrogen fuel cell offering.

 

I highly doubt that small (1.4) hybrid diesel would make great MPG improvement. This small 1.4 diesel engine is probably efficient from a very low load, so 8-10 kW EV threshold like in current Prius would be IMHO pointless, you would not gain 30% efficiency like HSD, but something smaller like 10%. You could also get this with smarter s&s system that can glide without engine.

A diesel hybrid is sensible when you have a bigger diesel engine, that is less efficient under low load, there you have a bigger saving (20%), like Peugeot 200 HP 4 wheel drive Hybrid4.

And don't forget that NEDC is highly misleading, there is a lot of effort to push cars under 100 g CO2, some call this cheating. And it's no coincidence that 1.4 D4-D Auris is right on the limit of 99 g/km. The other thing to factor in is that it's a manual with only 90 HP.

Real world mileage is neck and neck:
Übersicht: Toyota - Auris - Spritmonitor.de
Übersicht: Toyota - Auris Hybrid - Spritmonitor.de

And Yaris:
Übersicht: Toyota - Yaris - Spritmonitor.de
Übersicht: Toyota - Yaris Hybrid - Spritmonitor.de

And we must understand that 1 l of diesel equals to 1.13 l of petrol, when it gets to CO2 and energy usage. OK, a little less energy usage in US (excess diesel fuel) but more energy usage in EU (excess petrol fuel).

 

Maybe in the US. In Europe, the most popular Auris-sized cars have 1.4 to 1.6 TD engines with just 90-105 HP. An hybrid Auris or Prius can go head-to-head with them and beat many.
Just look at the 1.4D numbers: 0-100 km/h in 12.6 seconds, 15% slower than an Auris/Prius with 10.9 secs, and a 1.6 TD VW Golf is on par, 10.7 s.
Also, most of them have a manual transmission, automatic ones are a luxury optional often not even avaiable, so a "slow" Prius with a kick-down can easily leave them in the dust when they are still going down from the sixth gear to the fourth.

 

There's absolutely no opposition at all. In fact for some old-school stuff it's clearly a win-win combination.
Trains and ships don't run on gasoline.

My problem with diesels, other than having to deal with them in traffic is the constant skewing of data by their advocates in an attempt to prove that they're cleaner and more efficient than "gassers" for small passenger car use.

It's like posting a headline that says:
Scientists LIE more than Politicians, study says.


Im' sure that you can find examples where this might be true in some rare cases...but I think that people WITH three digit IQs and WITHOUT an agenda can readily tell which is which in most cases.

 

A diesel electric hybrid system would work well in a big truck or SUV, but I feel that anything in the size class of a hatch or small sedan would work better as a gasoline hybrid.

 

Peugeot have a diesel hybrd. It's only slightly more expensive than the Prius base model, yet has over 200 bhp. It's also more economical!! Rating 88g/km and 83 mpg UK compared to 72 mpg and 89g/km (diesel contains more power per gallon hence a higher g/km rating for more mpg's). Peugeot 3008 HYbrid4 | Eco Friendly SUV MVP Electric Diesel Hybrid

Peugeot also have a diesel car roughly the same size as the Prius yet that gets a combined figure of over 90 mpg UK and just short of 100 mpg on the highway rating.

I know it sticks in the throat on this forum, but diesels have caught up over here regarding mpg's, emissions (Euro 6) and performance. I remember the old arguments in 2010 when I'd just got my car that one modern diesel emitted the same as 20 Prii etc etc, but now that's no longer the case. Fuel economy on manual versions (granted not automatic) match and exceed the Prius in many cases and the diesel hybrid is a stylish alternative.

In the UK diesel fuel is more expensive so hybrids still have a perk but in many parts of Europe diesel is a commercial fuel and much cheaper than petrol.

So like it or shout and scream, but hybrids have competition here in Europe. Cleaner emissions and less fuel use is only a good thing regardless.

 

Pollution is not just CO2.
Auris HSD NOx rating: 0.0057 g/km ( 5,7 mg/km, less than 1/100)
Auris HSD CO rating: ZERO
Auris HSD HC rating: ZERO
Auris HSD Particulate rating: ZERO

New diesels are reaching current HSD in mileage, but still a long way until they reach current HSD pollution ratings.
And current HSD tecnology is almost FIVE years old now

 

And the new Euro6 diesels (only just coming on the market) pretty much match those emissions. Have a look inside the tail pipe of a urea injection diesel car. It will be totally clean and shiny. Now run your finger on the inside of your hybrids tail pipe (when it's cold obviously - don't go burning your finger ) and it will be black.

There is a big difference between the fuel injection regeneration diesel system and the urea injection version. The latter is more expensive but works very well and is the version used in the US. The fuel injection system depends on the manufacturer but my taxi colleagues found them to be very unreliable. It works, but not very well in town driving.

 

My observation here is that Troy Heagy doesn't deal too well with facts that don't support his agenda. What we should all do is just ignore all his posts and never respond to them. I'm pretty sure he gets excited when people oppose him and his threads become longer. He's just one of those that gets off on things like this and we are all feeding his fetish.