Next voltec, what do you think of the new rumors

And people are waiting for a Toyota minivan hybrid here.

Again I'll ask, what would GM, that had gone through a bankruptcy, gain from putting out a full hybrid like the Prius that it wouldn't gain from putting out the Volt?
GM already made out handsomely: they snagged a healthy taxpayer bailout, which us taxpayers are on the hook for 10 - 12 billion.

As I have mentioned numerous past posts the Volt was already successful to GM even before the 1st production model was released to the public.

DBCassidy

 

The feds wanted to cancel the Volt with the restructuring. It didn't help GM there.

This also bypasses the question what good a hybrid would do them.

 

GM got what they wanted and more: $$$$ and built the Volt that the feds were against.

The losers in all this: U.S. taxpayers.

DBCassidy

 

We've been asking for a Volt configured to match needs of mainstream buyers.

Anything matching middle-market purchase properties would have done the trick.

GM delivered what they wanted instead.

 

John, you hit the nail right on the head!

Thank you,

DBCassidy

 

Reality Check.

Whether people either never participated in discussions elsewhere or conveniently forgot the past makes no difference. Whatever the case or circumstances, the outcome is clear. We still don't have a vehicle with ordinary consumers from GM, which is the very thing Prius represents. It makes executives, supporters, and enthusiasts crazy. So, they do what they can to distract & delay.

The rest of us see right through all that. We know that Two-Mode was intended to be the superior technology. We know that fell apart and ended up transforming into what is now Volt. That didn't go so well either. Both attempts stumbled technically for remarkably similar reasons. They were both expensive and not as efficient as hoped. True, they worked, but the goal of replacing traditional vehicles was severely hampered from that engineering barrier.

If those alone were the only challenges, they could have struggled through. After all, incentives like tax-credits are offered to help overcome initial issues. Sadly, there was the business problem too. GM had sacrificed convenience & comfort for speed & power. That tradeoff doomed the rollout in late 2010. Not appealing to middle-market meant far fewer potential buyers would be available.

Over 3 years later, that's quite obvious. They could handle making fun of Leaf for having limited range and Prius PHV for having such a small battery-pack in comparison. But when Ford came along offering two hybrids with plugs that featured larger packs, things went from ugly to threatening. The reactions now are that of feeling uncertain & frustrated. Some choose to respond by misrepresenting Prius PHV, making people believe it has less capacity that it actually does and that the plug-supplied electricity isn't used when the engine runs.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter. If GM chooses to disregard need and builds what they want instead, mainstream consumers will just keep buying their traditional vehicles. It's that simple.

 

I can not think of any more business ways to boost sales of the Volt. Tax incentives, price drop, attractive leasing options have not increased overall sales of the Volt.

The Volt has become a "problem child" in the business world. It will never be a "rising star" as the Prius.

DBCassidy

 

Which doesn't answer my question.

You seem to have wanted GM to put out a hybrid to compete with the Prius. The Prius sells well, but the other hybrids aren't making the other companies fortunes. A GM hybrid would just be another among several.

As for mainstream, hybrids broke 3% of auto sales last year. Yes, a GM hybrid would help grow that, but corporations are soulless, greedy entities. Growing the segment helps us, but how does that help a company that is a latecomer to it?

Considering potential sales and profit, the Camaro is a better short term investment than a hybrid. A plug in is a better long term one because being first to a segment has a better chance of being top in it. PHV development also benefits later hybrid products.

The Ford Energi's might be better all around products for the mainstream, but they need to be counted together to beat the Volt in monthly sales. Despite its shortcomings as a mainstream car, the Volt is the PHV to beat at this point.

 

One reason the Prius sells so well *IS* that GM (and others) has specifically chosen NOT to offer a direct competition vehicle. In doing so, they have all but guaranteed that Toyota will OWN that market for the foreseeable future (and beyond).

 

I already did, several times. Here comes the bold & caps....

GM DIDN'T CONFIGURE VOLT FOR MAINSTREAM BUYERS.

Get it?

The battery-pack was grossly oversized, compromising cost, weight, and space. They didn't make engine efficiency a priority either.

That tradeoffs didn't make sense. Why would you just blow off middle-market purchase-priorities of the masses like that? How did they expect to achieve profitable, non-dependent, high-volume sales?

 

The EXACT same way Toyota did.
Build a first gen car to 'test the waters'. Use what you learn from that to build a more popular/better 2nd gen car, then use what you learn from that to build out a "family" of Voltec powered cars.

 

My question is what benefit was there to GM to make a mainstream hybrid to compete with the Prius at this time?

As a followup, how much difference would it make to the first question if this hypothetical GM hybrid had a plug and capabilities like the PPI?

 

If someone wants a "Volt with a smaller battery pack" they can buy a Ford C-MAX Energi or a Prius Plugin. GM doesn't need to provide that trim level right now in the limited universe of plugin hybrid designs. I don't know anyone who insists that any plugin hybrid they buy must only be made by GM.

When I bought my Volt in 2010 there was no other option unless I wanted to wait for at least another year. If I were in the market to buy a new car today I would probably buy another Volt.

Notice that I don't go around proclaiming that the Prius Plugin battery is "grossly undersized" and underpowered even though it is for my own purposes -- it's size and everything else that implies is a fine tradeoff for some other drivers.

When a cheaper 200+ mile BEV with DC fast charge comes along in a few years I'll probably buy that instead.

 

The catch is, GM didn't. The configuration wasn't market driven like Prius. A different path was taken.

 

Revisionist history. Sure they did.
How many sales did the Prius have 4 years after its introduction in Japan?

Update: ok looked it up.

Using the first partial year may not be fair so I added up the first 3 years of worldwide sales for Prius and the Volt.

Prius: 52,000 98,99,00
Volt: 72,000 11,12,13

US only would be

Prius: 60,000 01,02,03
Volt: 50,000 11,12,13

Sure, things aren't identical, nor is roll out logistics, etc.
But the numbers are pretty similar.

They have reached a similar number of people. The Volt was rolled out quicker that the original Prius and much quicker than the PiP.

But all in all, the market penetration seems similar.

 

The Prius was the first modern hybrid sold. It was a compact sedan when introduced. It was expensive compared to traditional cars in its segment. It didn't reach mainstream success until the second generation.

The Volt is a compact hatchback. It has a cubic foot more passenger volume than the first Prius, and 6 cubic feet more cargo room. It doesn't have a fifth seat, but the usability of a fifth seat in a compact depends on the end user. It to is expensive, but, unlike the Prius, has had its price reduced during the first generation.

The second generation isn't out, and there are no details from GM on it. Except for reducing the price. A statement which or may not include the price reduction that already happened. The Volt can't be judged mainstream or not until that generation comes out. The current one is the leader among PHVs, and is likely doing better than the Prius did during its first generation.

 

That's because we're talking about solutions for the masses.

Also, it is far easier to add capacity later than it is to scale back after the fact.