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France curbs Paris car drivers to combat dangerous smog

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Mar 16, 2014.

  1. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    Natural gas and electricity are more common forms of heating in the UK and France. Oil is mainly for more remote locations off the natural gas grid.

    Remember, oil is more expensive here, even heating oil (which doesn't have the same high tax as petrol).
     
  2. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Re Smog:101

    What is the difference between HC and VOC ?
    Are HC particulate and VOC gas ?
     
  3. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    I guess it's a different story here. The ex-mayor of NYC felt heating oil was a problem in the city.
    Mayor Mike Bloomberg, cleaning New York City’s air, one condominium at a time | Earth Ink
     
  4. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    This is about as much as I can find;


    E-PRTR


    Enter Road Transport and select NOX or SO2 etc (y)
     
  5. wxman

    wxman Active Member

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    HC is essentially a subset of VOC. Both are gases/vapors.

    HC = hydrocarbons
    VOC = volatile organic compounds (e.g., hydrocarbons, alcohols, etc.)

    VOC is also known as reactive organic gases (ROG) and non-methane organic compounds (NMOG).
    VOC is most often associated with vapors from volatile organic liquids like solvents.
     
  6. wxman

    wxman Active Member

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    Thanks.

    It still doesn't look like it provides speciated data on the PM (at least not that I can find).
     
  7. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Thanks.

    Then non HC VOC tend to be pre-combustion ?
    Does an NMOG result include HC ?
     
  8. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    wxman,
    I posted P2.5 and P10 earlier in the thread
     
  9. wxman

    wxman Active Member

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    Yes, VOC tends to be associated with pre-combustion HC vapors. Evaporative gasoline vapors would also be an example of VOC.

    NMOG does include HC, typically non-methane hydrocarbons (NMHC). NMOG is usually associated with organic emissions from vehicle exhausts.
     
  10. wxman

    wxman Active Member

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    Appreciate that, but I'm still looking for composition data of the PM10 and PM2.5.

    Here is a site I use for speciated PM data in the U.S....


    VIEWS - Visibility Information Exchange Web System


    As you can see, PM is composed of a myriad of "parameters", including elemental carbon, organic carbon, sea salt, sufates, nitrates, etc. These are the data that would be helpful in determining sources of the PM AQ issues in Paris.

    Any similar site for Europe?
     
  11. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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  12. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    Many petrol cars in Europe don't have the facility to reduce venting from the petrol tank. I know in the US you have the charcoal vapour recovery filter and many petrol cars here do have those also - but not all. Not sure if it's mandated.

    We also don't have the vapour recovery system on petrol fuel fillers at petrol stations, though I believe they don't really achieve much anyway. Petrol lawnmowers are not that popular as electric ones are easier and cheaper and lawns here are smaller.

    Maybe in Paris the scooters are the problem? We don't get many of them here because of our weather :) but in Paris they're everywhere. Maybe they're the problem?
     
  13. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    telmo744 likes this.
  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I know some facilities have dual NG and oil. They switch to oil when the NG company asks them to during high demand.

    The article mentioned that places are burning #4 and #6 oil. Which are thicker, #6 needs to be heated to be pumped, and dirtier than the #2(diesel but with way more sulphur).
     
  15. wxman

    wxman Active Member

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    Could be.

    The reason for my skepticism in automatically indicting diesels is that the same assumptions were made in the U.S. decades ago. I too initially believed that diesels were a "major" source of ambient PM. However, after looking at these speciated PM monitoring data in the 1980s, I noticed that EC typically made up a relatively small portion of ambient PM in all of the PM data that I looked at, usually less than 10%, even in urban cores. Organic carbon typically made up 50% or more of the ambient PM.

    According to EPA, PM from conventional diesels consists of about 75% EC on average, with the remainder consisting of OC, sulfates, and other minor constituents. If 75% of diesel PM is EC, and EC typically makes up less than 10% of ambient PM, then logically diesels typically contribute at most about 13%, even if you assume all EC comes from diesel combustion.

    The composition of new technology diesels (i.e., filtered diesels) is substantially different in that EC has almost been entirely eliminated from what little PM comes from the exhaust. Nevertheless, EC concentration of the ambient PM in Paris should give some clue as to what the source(s) of the PM is in the Paris AQ episode.
     
  16. wxman

    wxman Active Member

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  17. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    Enough for me...I quote its abstract:

    The two study sites, representative of background pollution and the influence of heavy road traffic, both show the domination of diesel exhaust fumes to the level of carbon in aerosols (either PM2 .5 or PM10), while industry is the main vector for lead and strontium, with a contribution generally superior to 50%.
     
  18. wxman

    wxman Active Member

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    From the linked paper...

    What are "associated gasolines (aquazole and diester 30%)"?
     
  19. GBC_Texas_Prius

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    I'm taking it that the smog eating car concept didn't take off. I remember at least a couple of car companies saying they had technology that would negative pollute and scrub the air.
     
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i think they were bought out and buried by al gore.;)