Next voltec, what do you think of the new rumors

Better late than never. Put it out and let the market decide.

 

GM "leased" their EV-1's to the public, then "crushed" them.

Toyota "sold" their Gen-I Prius to the public, then "refined" them!

 

If GM sold and refined the Precept, imagine how good it would be now.

 

Thanks for bringing all those facts to the conversation, a lot of value added by this post.

 

I was referring to outsiders views on the companies' progress with new models.

Was Toyota dragging its feet when they waited until the second generation Prius before expanding the line up of HSD models? Are they dragging their feet when they backed off from releasing the PPI nationwide in June of last year or not expanding its availability in 2014?

GM did not consider hybrids a serious market in the past. Now that they have a PHV they should rush expansion of the product line now? Rushing a product increases the chance of problems when it is released. Perhaps GM detractors want that so they have another example to hold up on how bad GM is. The thing is, a failed hybrid car from GM will be something for hybrid opponents to hold up.

The majority of vehicles sold are conventional ICEs. GM's vehicle fuel economy is competitive in the varying segments. Hybrids are back under 3% of new car sales. GM offering a Prius-like hybrid won't grow that market in large numbers. It won't help their bottom line much more than the Volt.

If Toyota had to do that with the Prius without subsidies, there might not be one today.

It is a reality that PHVs get a government incentive and hybrids don't. This surely had some influence on GM's decision with the Volt and whether to pursue a hybrid or not. They also went through a bankruptcy. That puts a damper on resources. The ability to do both a Volt and a hybrid likely wasn't possible while also improving upon the models that actually sell in numbers to pay the bills. Development of the Volt could be applied to a later hybrid, and it had other benefits a traditional hybrid didn't for the company.

It took years, millions in government subsidies, market and political forces keeping gas prices high, and multiple model generations before the Prius sold in the numbers it does now. As I pointed out other hybrid models still aren't selling at half of its volume, and some of them have been available for years and on their second generation.

 

Could have, would have, should haves don't cut it for the Volt.

The time has passed.

DBCassidy

 

Can't stand the facts, but they are the facts.

DBCassidy

 

Just admit it, GM blew it on the Volt.

DBCassidy

 

Agreed. The HUGE unanswered GM questions are:
(a) why wasn't the VOLT a reskinned Precept?
(b) why wasn't the VOLT powered by a smaller or diesel engine?
(c) why wasn't the VOLT powered by hydrogen-cell engine?
(d) why wasn't the VOLT offered earlier...in 2000?

 

Why was the Volt ever built in the first place?

DBCassidy

 

I don't see all the fuss. Granted this is a Prius forum, but anything better than a standard car at 20+ mpg is good news. I don't care if they are made by GM, Volkswagen or even (forgive me) Ford.

 

Why pretend there was no incentive for GM hybrid? GM got their share (during PNGV) when they developed the Precept.

 

a) Because GM never intended to sell it to begin with, and it was designed to be a hybrid. An AWD hybrid actually. It made heavy use of aluminum and other light weight, more expensive materials. Once made to be cost effective, the fuel economy numbers would have dropped from the extra weight. As a concept not meant for production, it may not have had a usable trunk. Which is worse than not having a fifth seat. Even if it did, it wasn't designed for a plug or a large battery.
The hybrid system in it did become the two-mode system in GM trucks, and there are rumors of a FWD two-mode system that was supposed to go into the Saturn Vue. Two-modes performance in the market put a damper on those plans.

b)The 1.4L in the Volt was not the design teams first choice. The concept used a 3cylinder turbo. Cost and time limits meant they had to go with the off the shelf engine used now. The 1.4L turbo in the Cruze and Sonic is from a newer family of engines that will eventually replace the family the Volt's ICE came from, and is the obvious choice for use in the next generation Volt. There is a also a smaller 3cylinder turbo available from the same engine family now.
Why not put in the newer engine became available? Simple supply levels could answer that. The Chevy Cruze is doing well for GM, and that little turbo is in a majority of them. The Volt team is likely also more focused on the hybrid and EV side. The 2013 Volt did receive a slight boost in EV range and efficiency.
At the time of Volt development, GM didn't have a small diesel ready for US emissions. Again, the cost of getting one of their European ones certified likely wasn't a possibility because of cost and deadlines. Even if they had one, it would increase the car's cost.

c)Because then they could only sell it in southern California. It likely would have been lease only then since that is what the current Honda and Mercedes are because hydrogen stations can't charge people yet.
People complained about the Volt's price when it was released. A fuel cell would cost even more. Toyota plans to release one in a couple years. From what Toyota has released so far, it will be a four seater that will cost around the same as a Tesla S, while having lower performance.
Fuel cells might win out as a range extender for plug ins in the future. Right now, well there are several thread already discussing FCEV.

d) For the same reason GM had no plans of offering the Precept, gas was cheap. While the car companies got government funds for development through PNGV, there wasn't any government incentive to help sell them. The Japanese government was giving Toyota and others a direct subsidy to sell hybrids and EVs when the Prius became available in 1997. It covered half the cost difference between the vehicle and a standard ICE one. Worked out to 210,000 yen for the Prius. It was more convenient to the buyer than a tax deduction or credit, or even a rebate.

 

And Toyota got a share from the Japanese government through MITI's LEV programs.

 

So we have Prius but where is Precept?

Why don't we have 2 configurations of Volt?

 

Toyota also got subsidies for cars sold from the beginning, and because those running GM at the time were fools.

Because GM got serious with the Volt late, and despite what people jabbering on the internet would like, vehicle development cycles still take time and money. For specifics on why beyond that you need to ask GM.

Might as well ask why didn't Toyota offer two configurations from 1997?

 

Serious would require delivering a vehicle for the masses, not one configured to appeal to enthusiasts.

We're still waiting for something matching ordinary purchases priorities.

 

Exactly...look at that Cadillac ELR!

 

And people are waiting for a Toyota minivan hybrid here.

Again I'll ask, what would GM, that had gone through a bankruptcy, gain from putting out a full hybrid like the Prius that it wouldn't gain from putting out the Volt?

 

And waiting, waiting, waiting...........

DBCassidy