Toyota Auris Excel Hybrid UK with a flat battery again

I asked the question in an earlier post for the maximum measurements that will fit in the Auris but have not had any response. It is quite possible there is such a battery as if required these batteries are perfectly happy and safe working lying on there sides making there dimensions flexible as far as fitting goes. If someone comes up with the available space figures I would be happy to see what I can find to fit the space.
I have been looking at a 90 AH battery that I believe I could fit in the Prius.

John (Britprius)

 

There have been a number of cases of the Auris problems reported here.

John (Britprius)

 

I am assuming that the 1) measurement is really 0.01A since the resolution of the meter is 0.01A.

All of the voltage measurements look very good. Let's see how 2) changes after a couple of weeks elapse.

 

One for the battery experts.

Is it possible / likely to have a perfectly testing battery, but damaged somehow.
Say by sulphation, manufacturing fault or internal damage of some sort.
That could cause the battery to self discharge at a higher current than normal.
(All batteries self discharge in normal conditions).

This might help to explain why the battery tests ok on the basic tests that the dealer or average diy'er would perform. However, due to the internal damage (carbon tracking possibly) although the capacity looks ok, it is being internally discharged at an increased rate.

Any thoughts?

G...

 

Yes it is possible. The usual cause is a faulty separator between the plates or plate material braking off falling to the bottom of the battery shorting out the plates discharging that cell.
It is also not unusual for the tester to have no clue on testing the battery often passing as good, bad batteries.
There are other reasons but these generally apply to batteries that have been in use for some time.

John (Britprius)

 

In post #83, I noticed that 2) was edited to read 12.4V. If that is correct, that reflects around 50% charge. A fully-charged AGM battery will measure 12.9V and a discharged battery will measure 11.8V.
Battery voltage and state of charge - Energy Matters

I suggest that the battery should be fully-charged using a 4A charger intended for AGM batteries. Then see how measurement 2) changes over time. That measurement should be taken in the morning, after the battery has rested overnight.

 

Yes they can fully charge the battery, your reading of 14.6 in ready is high because the battery is partially discharged. The charge voltage should drop to around 13.8 to 14 volts once the battery is fully charged, as it becomes discharged the charging voltage increases.

John (Britprius)

 

The drive battery uses different chemistry.
Lead acid batteries "the 12 volt" should always be kept fully charged. Anything less than a full charge allows the plates to sulphate "a coating that stops the acid interacting with the plates" this reduces the area of the plates in contact with the acid reducing capacity.
The HV "drive battery" is a nickle metal hydride battery and use KOH which is a costic solution that is an alkali.
These batteries have what is known as a cycle life. A cycle is a complete charge and discharge, and they typically have a life of 800 to 1000 cycles.
If you reduce the amount of charge and discharge to below and above the maximum and minimum values you can greatly increase the number of cycles. The down side of this is that the usable capacity is reduced, as in the Prius. This runs from around 80% charged to 40% discharged thus only using 40% of it's real capacity. The life cycle is unknown to us but it is in the many many 1000's of cycles.

John (Britprius)

 

Hello Brits mates, from Germany is popping out the culprit! You'll never guess.... the hazard switch!

Actually the problem is not sorted, is not about a defective switch but about some tricky interactions in the ECU.
The following link shows a post with a Toyota statement about the problem, but you have to subscribe to download it. And of course you have to speak German language. Which i don't, i'm waiting someone's collaboration in the next days. So i cannot give more info.
The only thing i'm able to understand is: for the time beeing, when you turno off the system, push the hazard for 2 seconds. It will stop the draw. Jeez...

Auris-Forum.de • Thema anzeigen - 12V Batterie nach 1,5 Wochen leer

 

Excellent resumé Running, i would add that the 600 mA drain is solely related to the Smart Key cars. It seems the drain is present also in the non-smart key versions but very rarely that led to dead batteries beeing a lot lower. Is'nt it?

 

Wow! Someone forgot to add a timeout in the ECU firmware, to put the ECU to sleep if the second signal doesn't arrive within a limited timeframe. Maybe that when the main ECU is on, it also keeps the smart key system awake, so on cars equipped with it, the power consumption it's enough to drain the 35Ah battery in less than a day, while on cars without it can last more days.

 

Mine never dropped below 14.3v when the car was running, it only dropped below 14v when it was switched off.

G...

 

"When the Hazard Warning Switch is operated it puts two signals onto the relevant CAN bus, the first signal alerts the ECU and tells it to wait for the second signal, this second signal instructs the ECU to turn on the Hazard Warning Lights."
This seems like an unnecessarily complex design. 2G Prius has the flasher relay directly wired to the associated switches (hazard switch and turn switch lever.)

 

Seems to be the way things are going. As I understand it, the HHR alerts, like the seatbelt one, and flasher clicks are actually generated by the stereo. Replace the stereo with an aftermarket one, and you lose the sounds.

 

HI all

as you know i have been installed by Toyota Spain a carchip (battery powered to analyze my problem with auxiliar battery).

I have been warned to do this procedure , put warning lights on 3 times and off when car is off, to "mark" OBDII device to log, it sound extrange to me, but could be related to what RunninPleaseass is talking..

Is toyota in the way to know thats the problem?