Toyota Auris Excel Hybrid UK with a flat battery again

Just to add my tuppence. Apologies for the bit of a rant.
Same car as the OP, except in red.
Great car, lovely to drive, I do really like it, but...
4 * 12v battery flat failures in 6 months.
This is battery number 3, been ok for nearly 2 weeks now.

Unfortunately, Mr T is reluctant to admit that they are selling cars that are unfit for purpose.

A bit of history...
Failure 1.. 2 months old. Dealer recovered the car, tested the battery & declared it faulty.
He had to wait on Toyota tech to approve the warranty replacement.
Toyota refused, insisting that the dealer recharge the battery & return the car to me.

Failure 2.. 1 week later. 5am run to the airport to catch the red eye. Car dead, taxi & bus/ train chaos ensued. Dealer kept car for 2 days, swapped the battery from the demonstrator (2 months older car).

Failure 3.. ~12 days later. Car again failed. Back to the dealer, was there for ~a month, they tried all sorts of tests, Toyota suggested more tests, gave me a question sheet to fill in. The end result was a note from Toyota technical to the dealer, that the car was not faulty and please inform the customer to keep his keys further away from the car. (Apparently 10m is too close.)

Failure 4.. About 2 weeks later. Went straight to the Dealer Principal this time, and politely asked him how he would like his car back. Car was collected and returned an hour later with a new battery fitted.

Through all this, Toyota technical has never seen the car, refuses to honour warranty issues, and admit that a 32Ah battery and under specced inverter charging system is totally inadequate for a modern? car with numerous electrical consumers.

This little episode has fairly dented my confidence in Toyota. It's pretty poor business practice to blame the customer for your own design and process flaws.

G...

 

My money is on the 12v being over utilised whilst parked (as a hybrid 12v is usually much much smaller than a traditional car) and then the car struggles to top it back up again whilst you're driving. Again, a hybrid takes longer to charge a smaller 12v. A double edged sword.

If the 12v has run too low too often, then it can fail internally and thus it will never fully charge and the cars hybrid system will be continuously trying to top it up - reducing fuel economy.

There have been reports of this on the Prius but I believe the Auris has much sitting in the background whilst parked. I wonder if the engineers didn't pick up on the slower topping up of the 12v on hybrids?

Anyone else got any theories or ideas?

 

welcome to you both! i have not seen anything like you are describing. there are some flat batteries, usually from leaving a light on or etc., but not defects on newer cars. it sounds like a constant parasitic drain which is wearing down the battery. and these small batteries can only take that a few times before they are completely dead. there is a way to test the battery with everything off to see if the draw is too high. of course, you have a few things running all the time, but there should be a spec for maximum draw in toyota service literature.

grumpy, are you saying that the auris is designed differently, with a larger draw than prius while at rest?

btw, that's a beautiful car on the outside, i like it!

 

Yes and no. I don't own one so can't say but it appears that there might be. You have the keyless opening like on the Prius on all 5 doors. I wonder if the range is wider than the Prius, thus the car is picking up the key when the owner is walking around their house. If that is the case, the interior lights will come on for 30 seconds and switch off. Easy way for owners is to have someone outside near the car and then someone else walk around in the house with the keys. If the interior lights come on, then there's your problem. If they don't then it isn't. I know on my car you have to be pretty much stood 2-3 foot away before the car picks up my key - certainly not 10 metres like the dealers are suggesting here.

What other items can be on in the background on the Auris other than keyless entry?

 

there are other things running like the clock and alarm, etc. a very low draw under normal circumstances for sure. i have left my car in unheated garage for up to 6 weeks with no problem. you could be right about the design, (i would love 5 door sks!) but i'm thinking a defect which is causing an abnormal drain, or a run of defective 12 volts?

 

Well! The 12v battery is only 32Ah (45 on the Prius I believe)
The numbers I have heard are: 600mA - car off - ready to start.
Stays this way for 20 mins. Then drops to 60mA - car quiescent.
However, if the keys are near (>1.2m) then the car wakes to draw 600mA again for 20 mins.

However, the charging circuit from the HV (~270v) battery via the inverter is much less,
Not sure of exact figures, but about 10 - 20 mA had been mentioned.

G...

 

could be a recipe for disaster? any feel for % of owners having troubles?

 

Is that right? Does anyone know if that's correct?

If so, then there's the problem. The Prius can (read can, not does) have problems with being left for a few weeks, and owners who only do very low miles can also have 12v issues. If the Auris is using a battery with 25% less capacity, then it's not going to take much to cause problems.

A smaller battery that takes longer to charge and with more background draw = trouble ahead.

Have any owners tried disabling the keyless entry and seeing if that helps?

 

GrumpyCabbie asked me to weigh in on this issue. This Auris model is not sold in the US so I have no firsthand knowledge of it.

(Is this model similar to the Prius c which is sold in the US? If so, you may want to consult the Prius c forum...

Or is this car like the Lexus CT200h? If so, see this forum: 12V Battery Replacement Under Warranty)

It would be interesting to see a photo of the 12V battery showing the battery's model number.

A digital multimeter on the ammeter setting can be used to measure quiescent current draw. It would be necessary to disconnect the 12V negative battery cable where it bolts to the body, and put the ammeter in series.

If in fact the draw is 0.06A, that is quite large. The 2G Prius current draw is around 0.02A. 0.06A x 24 hours/day = 1.44Ah/day.

The voltage across the battery should be measured when the vehicle is READY. 2G Prius will be around 13.8V which is already on the low side.

The voltage across the battery should also be measured when the vehicle is IG-OFF and has rested overnight. A fully-charged 12V AGM battery will measure 12.9V.

 

she's a beauty! i like the rear end. welcome to priuschat and all the best!

 

Post some more pics to whet the appetites of our American friends. They get the Prius C which doesn't look as nice as the Auris HSD. The new Auris HSD Estate/Station Wagon also looks good.

 

Hi Kevin, welcome to PC. The Auris is a good looking car.
The 12 volt battery has always been a bit of a week link in the Prius range of vehicles.
The first thing to check is the three voltages in the three modes:- accessory, ignition on, and ready mode after the car has stood over night. I do not know if the Auris has a battery check screen, if it does use this, if not use a volt meter and report back.
It is not uncommon for the 12 volt battery from new to be in poor condition. The cars systems continuously use a small amount of current, and by the time cars arrive at the dealers the battery can be discharged this can be made worse by the car being in a show room and people constantly opening the doors to have a look .
The dealer should recharge the battery on arrival but few do. The battery does not stand up well to being fully discharged and more often than not it needs replacing. Dealers often charge the battery after complaint test it and say it is fine, how wrong can they be.
The car does need to be used on a regular basis not left standing for weeks on end. Get back to us with those numbers and we can advise from there. One final thing, do you have any electrical add on's on the car.

John (Britprius)

 

The 12 volt batteries can have a long no charge period even in a car delivered to order. The batteries are made in Japan, and have to be shipped here then go to a warehouse then delivered to the build factory. However it is most likely the car has one of two possible problems :-
(1) The DC to DC converter (battery charging system) is not working.
(2) There is an electrical load that is not being turned off when the car is shut down (possible faulty relay) or something as simple as a faulty tailgate switch not switching off every time.
A lot of dealers do not have the real electrical expertise to find this sort of problem quickly often needing long conversations with the Toyota experts. Hope they solve this for you quickly and are supplying you with a free loan car.

John (Britprius)

 

I've tried to look at my 12v and there were no model numbers displayed and the important Ah was under the metal bracket. Not in a position to remove this at this time.

I have had a quick google into 12v battery sizes and it appears the gen2 Prius was 42/45 Ah, but the 1.8 gen3 uses a 35 Ah 12v. It appears this is the same as the Auris HSD. Is this different to the US gen3?

I could be wrong, so if anyone can double check or confirm, I'd be grateful.

 

Welcome. I hope they figure out what is draining that 12v battery when the car is off.

 

Kevin it can be really helpful to others if you give at leased a country of location in your avatar. This apart from anything else helps identify the specification of the vehicle you ask about, as differences do appear from country to country.

John (Britprius)