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Spontaneous loss of EV (indicated) range

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by 3PriusMike, Jan 15, 2014.

  1. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    Here is what happened. My winter driving range has been about 11.5 - 11.8 for a couple of months. Due to the holidays I wasn't doing my regular (easy) commute route and my range dropped to 11.1. But back on my regular commute the last few days it started increasing...to 11.2 and then 11.3 this morning.
    With a full charge, I went on an errand this afternoon...about 5 miles each way and returned to work and began charging with 1-2 miles remaining. 90 minutes later I went to my car to go to the gym. The charging light was off, but I had not yet gotten the ChargePoint text...so it had not yet been 15 min with no current flow. When I went to start my car there was something wrong...the normal Prius welcome screen took 2-3 seconds longer to appear than normal (or so I remember). The car wouldn't go ...like when you don't step on the brake when you try to start...but my foot was on the brake. I turned the car off, then tried again...pressing harder on the brake to make sure. Again...car not ready. It took 3-4 tries, then the car worked as normal. But my EV range was showing as 6.6 miles.
    Did I not get a full charge? Wasn't sure. Nothing made any sense.
    I started driving (not my normal route since my old gym closed Dec 31 and I was going to a new gym) I drove 8 miles to my new gym (no hills, 35 - 50 mph roads)...all in EV and used only ~2 miles of EV range. 2 hours later I got into the car to go home...normal start, 4.x miles showing and I drove about 4 miles at 60 mph on the freeway, the car switched to HV normally and I went a total of 9 miles to home with no EV remaining. I just finished charging...a full charge and the car shows 6.8 miles of EV range.

    Very weird. Seems like some software glitch changed or zeroed some of the EV range history.

    Mike
     
  2. Michael33

    Michael33 Member

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    That could be a failing 12 volt accessory battery. A lot of gremlins, especially those at startup, can be caused by low voltage in that circuit.
     
  3. Prius 2007 user

    Prius 2007 user Junior Member

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    I would agree with Michael33, this looks like an empty (or faulty) 12 V battery instance. It never happened to me, but a neighbor of mine has a Prius (2008, I believe) and once he called me in despair because he could not start it anymore. I went to his rescue and sure enough the display was acting up. He told me he had been waiting for somebody in his car, listening to the radio, lights on and main power off for quite some time. To cut a long story short, I jump-started it and told him, in the future, to make sure main power (i.e. power train and all the works) was on. The 12 V battery is tiny and will run empty in no time if the system is left in "accessory power" (that is pushing "Power" once or twice without holding the brake pedal down, or pushing "Power" with your foot on the brake and then switching the transaxle from P to N). This holds true for both the "normal" Prius and the PIP.
     
  4. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    That's strange. You are not sure if you got a full charge but still got 12 EV miles total (but est was 6.6). Another full charge still shows 6.8 so it is increasing.

    Why did the est dropped to 6.6 in the first place? Did you leave the car on by any chance? The only way I can think of is something drained it and the car was estimating based of the consumption.
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i would disconnect the 12v negative for a minute. if everything is okay, range should go back to 13.3 or so. definitely test the 12v for health.
     
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  6. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    The car was off for sure when I started charging it. Like I said...there seemed to be a glitch when I started it and it did not go to the normal ready state...but to acc on (but skipped the stage where just the radio goes on). I got a normal full charge based on the ChargePoint data.

    Update:
    This morning I started out with 6.8 EV miles. I drove ~8 miles only in EV at 35-40 mph on a flat road and it was uneventful. After 1 mile I was showing 7.0 miles and after 2 miles I was showing 7.6 miles remaining. I got about 4-5 miles down the road before I was back to 6.8 miles. After 8 miles I had 4.5 miles remaining. An hour later I drove another 10 miles, with about 6 in HV on the freeway and had 1 mile EV left. Again, nothing strange on startup or while driving except that the EV range estimate is off.

    Mike
     
  7. rorystewart

    rorystewart Junior Member

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    Keep us posted if anything changes. This is weird.
     
  8. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Did you try bisco's advice?
     
  9. Michael33

    Michael33 Member

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    Before you disconnect the accessory battery and lose all stored settings, try taking a voltage reading at the accessory battery terminals or jumpstart terminals if present, a few hours after turning the car off after a drive. It should be up around 13 volts at rest. If it's closer to 12 volts, you have a dying or starved battery. Keep in mind that these problems with a dying 12V battery can be intermittent at first, getting worse as time passes.
     
  10. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    An update...
    I'll measure voltage in the morning.
    On my 3rd charge after this happened my EV went up to 7.1 miles...I drove 5 miles then about 7 miles before charging again with 0.2 remaining. But the 4th charge was also only 7.1.
    But I finally figured out the ongoing symptom. Every time I try to start the car after a full charge it does not go to ready (green EV light on) until I press the power button a second time. Once I've driven and powered off this abnormal behavior doesn't happen again until I do a full charge. I've tried charging for just a minute and stopping the charge and it starts normally.

    Mike
     
  11. CaliforniaBear

    CaliforniaBear Clearwater Blue Metallic

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    Here are the voltages to expect based on battery charge. This is information from the Prius manual.
    12-volt battery Open voltage at 68 °F (20 °C):
    12.6 - 12.8 V Fully charged
    12.2 - 12.4 V Half charged
    11. 5 - 11.9 V Discharged
    (Voltage is checked 20 minutes after the hysystem and all lights are turned off.)
     
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  12. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    My manual says (in the specs section):
    Fully charged: 12.5 V or over.
    Half charged: 11.0 - 12.5 V
    Discharged: Under 11.0 V
    I wonder if they made changes (improvements?) in the 2013 battery?
     
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    mike, if those symptoms are due to a bad 12v, i think you'd be lucky. it sounds more like a bigger issue than that though. i think i'd run it by the dealer if the 12v is good.
     
  14. CaliforniaBear

    CaliforniaBear Clearwater Blue Metallic

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    Yes, the specs I quoted are on page 618 of the 2012 manual and the specs you quote are on page 618 of the 2013 PHV manual. I must say the Half Charged range is quite large in the 2013 manual. I believe the low value is incorrect. It can't be "half charged" and "discharged" at 11 volts. I suspect the 11.0 in the Half charged spec should actually be 12.0.

    Also, another strange thing. The 2013 PHV manual says "Voltage is checked 30 seconds after the hybrid system and all lights are turned off." In my experience it takes more than 30 seconds after things are turned off for the battery voltage to "settle down", at least a couple of minutes. 30 minutes (similar to 20 minutes for the 2012) would make a lot more sense.
     
  15. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    I measured my 12v battery voltage this morning after sitting all night without charging...only 11.1 - 11.2 volts.
    But car still started perfectly OK. Like I said earlier...it seems to take two pushes of the power button to start AFTER doing a full charge.

    Anyway...very strange symptoms. Bringing in to the dealer tomorrow.

    Mike
     
  16. rorystewart

    rorystewart Junior Member

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    You obviously need a new battery. Bet that will solve your problem entirely and bring the car back to starting with 1 button press.
     
  17. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    Yes...that's the conclusion I came to when I measured 11v. When I dropped off the car at the dealer though the service guy thought all the symptoms weren't conclusive...

    Mike
     
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    all the best!(y)
     
  19. ny_rob

    ny_rob Senior Member

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    12 volt batt should be covered 100% by std warranty correct?
     
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    or is it prorata?