Ford to unveil solar hybrid concept car at CES

It is also illegal to use delivery drones. You seem to be claiming delivery drones should be legal. How do you enforce that the drones can fly by windows but can't record? They must stream video to be legal. You see the problem don't you? Until privacy issues are resolved delivery drones should be illegal. As long as they can carry cameras and payload, I ought to be able to shoot them down if they illegally enter my airspace.

Sorry private pilot here. Your personal airspace does not according to the faa extend up forever, it does extend in most cases 500' up.

I doubt they will deliver until laws are rewritten. Are you claiming something here?

That's all I'm saying, the first part. I have doubts about 10 years for vehicles above 55 lbs including payloads. This puts the amazon proposal out as hype IMHO, something not likely to happen anytime soon. Sure some hyped things eventually come into being, but here we have a great deal of safety and privacy issues that have to be litigated before it happens, and that takes time.

I dont think that is the laughable part, but the piece that pushes the technology out into the future. The costs get quite high if only lasting 10 years. Technilogical breakthroughs in manufacturing solar roofs needs to take place for it to have payback. IMHO it would have been much more practicle of the prius solar roof to simply be a regular sun or moon roof, perhaps with a advanced lead acid battery that could hold more of a charge and power fans Make it small and cheap enough though and people may buy it for the novelty. For me, I wanted a sun roof but wasn't going to pay for the upgraded radio in order to get it Others have and are quite happy, but it is much more expensive than the alternative, otherwise toyota would be offering it on a camry. Perhaps with the georgia tech technology, ford or anouther automaker can provide a gimicky trickle charger with fans, but at lower cost to manufacture than the one on the prius.

 

Not sure why I'm arguing with you. You have proven time and time again on this forum to never listen to anything anyone else has to say (and be kind of a "know it all" jerk about it).

But oh well responses above...in bold.

 

a canopy over your car? seriously! they couldn't figure out how to mold in smaller fresnel lenses into the acrylic top, vent it, and insulate underneath?

 

How about Solyndra's design? They had very good design, just not good management.

 

I don't understand why either. You simply have a different definition of hype than me. I guess you are trying to convince me that something I think is hype is inevitable progress, and you think calling me a jerk will help. Well, whatever. Just to educate you a tiny bit, in the most know it all jerky way possible.

Cameras are required as part of the proposed FAA safety regulations. Since there is not a pilot on board and there will be accidents the FAA thinks there should be a way to monitor where the things are flying.

I simply think that the government and humongous corporations should not be able to hapazardly invade our privacy. Many I know think that if you are a billionare or work for the fbi or NSA that you ought to be able to do whatever you want, but some of us care. I guess MLK, if he wasn't doing anything wrong shouldn't have worried about the FBI bugging him, you know, J. Edger was ofcourse able to break the 4th amendment without any problem, and James clapper can lie to congress and have no consequences. Maybe Bezos is above the law too, but at least the ACLU will sue to try to protect some peoples rights.

Yep I'm an idiot. Texas already has found it proper to make flying these things low over your land illegal without permission. Texas A&M corpus has been testing drones for a couple of years and is one of the 6 sites the FAA will use for the new program. The FAA in its program does not allow any commercial activity with the unmanned air craft. That pretty much rules out amazon delivering packagess until the law changesIIRC North Dakota has offered tests to amazon, ofcourse these can not be for profit deliveries. Texas A&M corpus christi is claiming they can use private airspace as part of the FAA program. Once there are FAA rules, and I doubt these will come fast, Amazon will have to comply with state laws, which may allow for this.



Now I am not sure about the need to get that amazon box a day earlier, but its going to wait for the FAA and the states to get these things together, and I highly doubt that is going to be a fast process. I guess people do want to purchase their christmas presents on-line only a day before and then get mad at UPS, so they may pay extra for you to fly them. Great more money for amazon, and I own some of their stock, but this isn't going to happen tomorrow or the next day. Its years down the road, I call it hype, you call it progress, ok? Cheers. Just a disagreement on what we call hype.

lol. The idea around solyndra was that these things would cost more to make, but less to install. It turns out they cost more to make + install. If it was great tech, and simply bad management then someone would have bought the rights from the bankrupcy court. It didn't take long for twinkies to get manufactured once hostess went bankrupt with poor management and unions.

For a car, its really cheap to install something, as you can build it in the factory, but it must be affordable to manufacture.

 

Oh austingreen, ruining more threads on this forum since 2009 than anyone else. That's why we all love you.

XT1060 ?

 

Seems the reverse is true here.
You are the one throwing insults/personal attacks.

While you may disagree with Austin, as I do, on this issue, at least he isn't hurling personal attacks.

 

Solar panel technology will need to improve 200%+ before this will be to a level that people expect. Currently, I think most would think the panel should be able to fully charge the battery in under 2~4 hours which is just not technically possible yet with the levels solar panels currently deliver.

Meantime, look for Ford to offer "a fix" for the lower than expected recharge levels in the next couple years for this new technology release.
Wheel levelers to help you get better angle on the sun with your solar cells to help save the Ford embarrassment again.

 

Some specs from this prototype.

Green Car Congress: Ford unveils C-MAX Solar Energi concept; “plug-in” hybrid not dependent on electric grid can fully recharge from sun
1.5 square meter area sun power solar on the roof rated at 300 watts peak. The canpopy can focus up to 8x the sunlight on the panel, and the car moves under it for maximum sunlight.


There is a video on the link also that shows the materials for the panels etc.

 

It is a much larger area, and if it corrects for the poor angle and focuses the energy, it will do much better.
This is still something I'll need to see though

 

Incentive would be that Ford cars get free charges (like what Tesla is doing). Others would have to pay and maybe earn points towards the purchase of a Ford. Having Ford branded solar charging stations around helps with brand recognition and they would likely get a nice gov grant or tax breaks for them.

 

The video shows an animation with dimensions. I understand people got mad at me about using that h word when it came to it, but here is an article describing it, with an opinion included similar to mine, but with perhaps wording that those here find less "jerky"
Ford’s New Solar Car Is a Supercool Fantasy - Bloomberg

I would corret on number 1 that perhaps these will be set up at work, but it still leaves the other things. Then for those that think it is the future, he adds.

Ford is taking the phev route not the bev route. That means charging is home and work centric with gasoline for long trips not super chargers. The energi batteries are too small to make quick chargers matter that much, I mean I don't care how fast the batteries charge, if you have to stop every 20 miles to charge its going to be a long trip.

 

Off topic, but I love the concept. I agree with you that airspace ABOVE your property is yours.....at least in U.S., we have drilling royalty rights to minerals extracted from thousands of feet BELOW our property (unlike EU, etc.). Perhaps we should be allowed to charge the drone operator for "overflight rights"?
Anyhow, same concept as U.S. satellites routinely violating 'airspace' of foreign nations, but aside from India, China & Russia, no country has the ability to shoot them down.
Just wondering what type of weapon you intend to use to shoot down a drone flying 1000 yards above your property @ 50 mph, in case they rejected your "airspace permission"?
And then there's the fact that it'll crash land on your neighbor's property, so he/she will get the booty......

 

Agreed Scorpion,
while solar is still free, it may not be in the future. We simply have to look at the crazy rain harvesting laws found in states like Colorado currently where it is against the law to collect the rainwater off your roof in a rain barrel. While the rain did fall on your property, the state has deemed the skies over your house are theirs as much as the mineral rights under your house. I would look for solar to eventually be taxed per mW you privately generate and steal from the planet.

 

With regards to the topic of this thread, I am far, far less cynical of solar panels on the roofs of cars than others are.
Thin films are coming along, and 20% efficient thin films on the roof and hood make a great addition.

Will they get dirty or covered in snow? Duh. The watts/hr you get will go down, obviously.
Will they cease to produce if you park in a shaded area? Duh. Which begs the question why you would do so when you know you can get free juice? I know that the top of the parking garage is almost always the easiest parking spot to get.

Another thing: Imagine how cool it would be if windshield sunshades had thin films on them, with a tiny cord to feed the juice into an outlet located near the rearview mirror (hey, maybe the cord could even be USB 3.0! USB 3.0 to provide up to 100 watts of power, capable of driving monitors, notebooks | TweakTown)


This would continue to provide power even if the roof were covered in snow, or dirty.
I also love the idea of solar cells being integrated into the tint of the sun/moonroof and/or rear hatch window.

Now, some numbers:

I measured the roof and front hood of my Gen II to have total area of 2.52 square meters (NOT including 1.73 sq m for windshield & rear window combined)
@ 1000 watts max insolation per sq. meter per hour, this is 2520 watts max per hour
@ 20% efficiency this is 500 watts/hour
@ 4.89 kwh/day/sq meter (average insolation in San Jose, CA) this comes out to 2445 watts/day or 2.5 kwh/day
@ 4.8 miles/kwh, this is NEARLY 12 MILES/DAY FREE!

Max wattage of 500 watts means cost could be $500 (@1/watt...Google "NanoSolar thinfilm PV"). Let's just say $1000.

Well.......12 miles day free (assuming you park outside during work, 200 days/year) = 2400 miles. That means NOT using 48 gallons of gas....@ $5
that works out to $240/year.

Over 10 years or so, that's $2400 (or more if gas goes above $5). I don't see how there is no payback. Maybe my #'s are off, but if someone can weigh in and tell me how.

Not to mention:

- Running ventilator fan (not sure if an A/C would run on 500 watts?)
- AND - one thing no one seems to mention.........NO VAMPIRE LOSSES. Park you EV at the airport, and even on cloudy days, you can come back MONTHS later, and the SOC of your pack should be the same as you left it.....or even more!
Read:
Life With Tesla Model S: Even After Update, Vampire Draw Remains | Popular Science

Last March, Tesla CEO Elon Musk addressed the vampire/sleep-mode issue in a meeting with Norwegian Model S buyers in Oslo. Musk promised that a new sleep mode would reduce vampire losses to a mere 0.2 percent--an insignificant 170 watt-hours--per day.

Does anyone reading this really believe even the weakest solar panel on a very small portion of the car, with a fair amount of dirt on it, could not come up with 170 watt-hours in a day!?

Whoa, you're saying property owners in CO don't have mineral rights? I guess it varies by state. I don't think that's the case in TX and others.

 

While the numbers you worked out appear to be correct for the estimated wattage. They are optimum conditions which we know will never be achieved every day except in San Deigo.

Agree, I would have liked a trickle charge over the vent concept that Toyota did. Little trickle charge is always better than none.
I would also like to see what hail stones and the severe weather changes would do to these roof panels before rushing out to buy one.

 

Why $5/watt? I read they're approaching 'grid parity' or $1/watt. Yes, that's for non-auto apps, but 5x that amount seems unreasonable

$.15/kwh? Don't most public EV charging stations charge far more than that?

Why should cars not get tax subsidies for solar? The EPA is giving CAFE credit for more efficient A/C.....I don't see why free miles from sunshine shouldn't qualify for something!
Why are home systems less expensive to start? They have to be custom installed with expensive labor. The ones on a car can be mass-produced with robot assembly lines

OK, so strip off the roof, hood and any other areas containing solar once the car is junked. Then, sell these solar panels at a discount to people who couldn't otherwise afford them on their house.

We need to start thinking outside the box! Peak Oil is almost here!

 

PV prices will likely come down to make mass use on cars possible. Will they reach the point of being a practical way of charging a plug in? Not likely. The C-max concept is using some of the most efficient PVs available. Yet it still needs a lens to magnify the light hitting them 8 fold in order to get 20 miles range in a day. Without the canopy, the car might get a mile or two while parked at work.

Every little bit helps at this point in time, but by the time these car PVs will reach the ability to be common, more public and work charging will likely be available. In order for aesthetics to prevent adoption, these car PVs will still cost more than stationary ones. So the cost is still better to install PVs for the chargers, which can dump power not used for cars into the grid.

That said, I would like to see them advance enough to allow them to precondition cars beyond running vent fans. If they could run engine and traction battery heaters to reduce warm up times, the efficiency of all cars can be improved.

 

The writer of the article has absolutely no imagination (or is an idiot).
"That’s convenient if you leave for work everyday at 9 p.m."

Wth? Did he ever think of the possibility of people putting one of these canopies at their work parking spot?
Heck, I bet it'd be easier to get permission to do that than it would be to get access to an outlet at some employers!

 

I agree with you that being able to do more than ventilation is something to look forward to.
I found this on the internet machine:
Toshiba – The most common misconceptions about air conditioners
A Super Daiseikai with a 2.5 kW capacity achieves a 5.12 EER! That means that a power consumption of under 500 watts is needed for a 2.5 kW cooling capacity performance (equal to five light bulbs).
So, it appears that the 500 watts of continuous power a 20% thin film covering the roof & hood of my Gen II could keep me cool too! (and this isn't even counting the extra sq meter or so by using my 'thin film windshield sunshade' idea).

And not to nitpick, but a car equipped with V2G could dump power back onto the grid once it has topped off its battery with some combo of grid & PV. I'm not saying PVs for charging stations (Tesla supercharger, etc.) don't make sense, I'm just saying that if you rely exclusively on off-car PV, then you lose the ability to:
(a) pre-condition/ventilate car on hot/cold days while you're sitting in it (or returning to an unplugged EV on hot/cold day)
(b) eliminate vampire losses from accessories and keep battery SOC topped off (or even increase it) when parked for long periods of time away from charger
(c) definitely help with mpg when stuck in traffic on hot day......think bumper-to-bumper in Vegas @ 110 degrees

Much like the debate about cheaper mild/micro hybrids vs. payback times, the cost of the solar panel will have to me measured against just how much EV range and/or mpg improves vs. the cost of the panels themselves