Arguments for superiority of hybrids

Get ready for a ride on this discussion. Though I bought one, there were/are some better total cost of ownership (TCO) non-hybrid choices. The thing is, most folks do not buy hybrids for TCO.

 

well here in the EU gas is priced higher and when you have a lot of road time then TOC can be lower
less fuel and less maintenance.
some countrys also have lower road tax etc etc.

then if your looking for a car with a automatic ( also because when your on the road a lot thats nice to have ) other cars come with a automatic come close to the price of a hybrid and those automatic use a lot more fuel.

 

If you are making comparison to the least expensive automobiles, then the TOC of a Prius will be higher [assuming your not paying European fuel prices].

However when comparing like-priced vehicles, the winning debate is always MPG and fuel price.

 

It all depends upon the buyers priorities.
If their priority is a vehicle that can haul 3 tons of bricks on a daily basis, or has blazing performance, hybrids are anything but superior.
If they are looking for a low cost of ownership, some hybrids make a great deal of sense.
The Prius, in particular is one of the best balanced cars in terms of TCO, gas efficiency, utility and reliability out there. But if the buyer cares little for those aspects then you would be wasting your breath.

If you can tell us anything about the priorities of the buyer that would be very helpful.

 

If you drive enough, real world fuel mileage always wins. (fuelly.com as an example)

Also, if you apply the same 'rules' to justifying a Hybrid, to regular cars, you always end up in a Nissan Versa.

 

Really the TOC comparison needs to be to the other car one is considering. The press likes to diss hybrids and EV's with comparison to el-cheapo base models. When I compared the price of my 2004 Prius against my 2000 Camry LE-V6, I quickly realized that the extras in the package 9 (Nav, HID, etc., etc.) that were not in the Camry were more than the price difference between the two cars. So I was "saving" money from the day I drove the Prius to the first fill-up.

 

I think the largest areas of contention are:

- Higher initial cost of a hybrid, which is offset by lower fuel costs if you drive a lot of miles per year.

- More to go wrong on a hybrid, which is partially offset by a strong record of reliability for Toyota hybrids. There are still quirks like the brake "surge" on rough surfaces and noisy startups if the pervious startup didn't fully warm the engine.

- Hybrids look funny, which is being offset by models like hybrid versions of the Camry, Accord, Civic, and Fusion.

- Belief that only enviro-libs drive hybrids, which is slowly changing over time as more of us Republican NRA members buy hybrids.

 

Its a car with a built-in game Although I'll admit I'm doing somewhat more "just drive it" than I did when I first owned a Prius.

 

I agree with some others that it depends on what the driver is looking for. If their main priority is performance and handling, then a Prius is not the way to go with them and nothing you say can or will change their minds. Or if they're of the crowd that thinks that they'll get made fun of for driving a Prius, they'll never dare look at one either.

 

To me its easy, hit 'em with these:
1) The Prius/hybrid has no starter
2) There are no belts or parasitic loads
3) Regen braking results in very low brake wear
4) The engine runs less than 100% of the time (usually about 70-90%) resulting in longer engine life
5) Spark plugs last for 120,000 miles or more
6) 40+ MPG in the CITY

Then explain to them that the definition of high performance is changing and the hybrid is largely responsible for that change. The Prius is a "high performance" vehicle. It is the perennial mpg champion and nothing can touch it!!!!

 

Good question, I am struggling with it.

I tend to agree to hybrid technology is probably under-utilized in the USA. Believe some experts were expecting 5% cars as hybrids by now in USA, we instead got maybe 1% of vehicles on road right now as hybrids. Look to Japan to see a country probably using hybrid technology to fuller potential, and that is in-part due to Japan's lack of energy resources.

As far as why? Congressional priorities (ethanol, EV, biofuels, etc), personal preferences, misconceptions. Long list I suppose. I'd say not-invented-here syndrome, except we did invent it.

 

Sure, there are numerous other aspects and in my opinion benefits to owning a Prius. But if someone is not willing to consider the low emissions and the great gas mileage then there is no counter argument you are going to be able to advance. You're wasting your time even trying. Those are the primary or fundamental benefits being created by HSD, and if someone doesn't consider them advantage enough? They will not be convinced by any other minutia.

I don't even know if arguing for the "superiority" of a hybrid or Prius is even valid. I wanted a Hybrid, and I appreciate the driving and ownership experience that owning a hybrid and a Prius creates, the efficiency and what I would call more refined driving feel all are things I appreciate. Do I expect everyone else will embrace these same priorities in vehicle ownership and driving experiences? No.

Everyone likes to think the vehicle they drive and own is a "superior" choice. But Prius or otherwise? I don't need to believe my vehicle is necessarily superior to anything else or anything else. The only person I'm really trying to impress is myself. I've defended Hybrids and Prius in casual "friendly" debate but personal "superiority" is subjective to the individual.

For me it was owning a Hybrid, obviously including great gas mileage and lower emissions. I spent around $19000 for a fully loaded Honda Fit Sport...with many options, I spent $22,500 for a "base" model Prius with all the same bells and whistles my "loaded" Honda Fit Sport had...plus things the Fit could not have by definition. The difference in cost between the two vehicles was $3,500, even though I admit I think I could of gotten a better deal on the Honda. I paid more than I should of...
But to me the $3,500 difference was hardly a "premium" at all. The Prius being a larger and IMO much more comfortable vehicle.

If asked to defend the superiority of one vehicle over the other? I would be hard pressed. The older I get, the more I value the driving experience of The Prius "more". I actually find it to be a very good balance of utility and comfort as well as being a hybrid.

The Fit? Was a great (maybe the best) compact vehicle I ever owned. Agile feeling, quick "feeling" and amazingly designed interior. Dare I say "fun to drive"?

I don't regret owning either vehicle. The Prius is the vehicle I want today. But if someone doesn't value owning a Hybrid...for the benefits of owning a hybrid? I'm not going to try to convince them otherwise.

 

Well said.

 

Do you believe that there is more to go wrong on a Prius than say a typical automatic or are you saying that others believe that there is?

I assumed that this was the case until I read up on the subject and ended up concluding that the Prius is mechanically simpler and what is there is less likely to give problems

 

The Prius is immensely mechanically simpler in so many ways. No belts, no starter, 1 gear set in the transaxle etc but, it is more complex overall than most any other car due to all the electronic control required. This by no means makes it less reliable though.

 

...of course the HV battery failure misconception, mention 150000 mile CARB warranty on hybrid components and, in the case of Prius, using NiMH not Li batteries.

We can chip away at technical misunderstandings and misconceptions, but politics is different story.

 

In all fairness, lets not forget the reports of invertor, brake and steering issues (out of warranty) by respected members here, and the extremely high costs associated with those repairs. These are not political. I have been spared thus far but these are things to consider overall. Nothing breaks cheap on these things.

 

There may be inverter failures that are not caused by bad jump start protocol, but I have not heard of one. I continually tell folks not to jump start a Prius twice. If the battery fails, get a new one. (try to plan your life to never get your jump start from another vehicle, via dumb jumper cables, either use smart jumper cables or a small jump pack)

Brake issues I have read about have to do with ignoring that you MUST defeat the computer control brakes to bleed them. Those that try to bleed the brakes the old way, fail big time. The other brake failure is rusting via disuse.

I will try to read some steering issues, I have not seen enough to see a pattern.