Range Neurosis

Fan can draw 100 to 250 watts. Probably the biggest of all (headlight, heated seats, sound system etc).

 

What are your estimates for those other three?

 

Headlights are 110 watts but this is a safety need.

One heated seat draws about 50 Watts on high and 25W on low.

Sound system uses too little to detect or already part of the 500W required to be in READY mode.

My guess is that Toyota engineers want to discourage the use of cabin A/C by providing instantaneous info.

 

Thx sea wolf, I realize motors draw a lot , but would think heat elements would draw as much or more!

 

I bought a custom fit subwoofer enclosure, made for the Non-PiP Gen 3 passenger side cubby in the hatch. It didn't fit, because the charging port in the fender required a change to the interior panel, resulting in that cubby being slightly smaller and having a different shape on the PiP. I suspect that may have impacted the cargo tray/mat also.

 

got it, thanks. so the cubic feet are about the same.

 

Getting more range won't cure the neurosis. Ask a Volt driver.

Volt owners have the same neurosis, always trying to save the electric miles for when they are most efficient, especially on long trips. Many Volt owners use Hold and Mountain Mode to keep some EV range in reserve while driving on the highway, then put the Volt back into normal mode once they exit the freeway, using the EV miles on city streets, where they are most efficient.

The real neurosis in the Volt is trying to squeeze a couple miles of extra EV range when the battery is mostly depleted. Volt owners will drive with no AC in Phoenix when it is 115 degrees or no heat in Minnesota when it is below freezing. After a while I got over this as I realized that 5 miles of gasoline driving only used 1/8 gallon of gas in the Volt. It is no big deal if I have to drive 5 miles on gas now and again. I can do that 72 times before I need to fill the Volt's 9 gallon tank.

The only real difference with Volt neurosis is that there is no risk of the engine turning on due to heavy acceleration, giving you once less thing to get neurotic about.

But, in the long run, our wishes will be granted....This is only the 1st inning for plugins... Many more are on the way...

Maybe GM will make a Cross-Volt that will give back the 5th seat and storage that you are looking for. Or maybe Toyota will add range in the Pip Gen 2. There will be quite a few new plugins in the next couple years. I can't wait to see what variations the manufacturers come up with...

 

It's not only range anxiety, it's the lethargic and ponderous recharge process.

Even the Tesla crowd has to spend an hour at a Supercharger station (assuming availability) to go another 200 miles.

Compare that with <5 minutes at a ubiquitous filling station to fuel the Prius for another 400 miles (or more).

 

I think that a PHEV with a 100 mile range would eliminate the 'range anxiety' in most drivers, although not all.

 

Tesla has demonstrated the only real option (in theory) so far for range anxiety with the battery swap and super chargers, if you are rich. I think most folks are programmed with the freedom and convenience (limited only to money available) of gas and diesel vehicles, to anytime soon sway the masses.

 

it's likely going to be a long slow process, dependent on gas prices, government incentives and improving technology.

 

i get anxious when the pump is slow.

 

Most Tesla owners charge at home overnight. It only takes a few seconds of effort.

The superchargers are for road trips. Around 200 miles, most stomachs are ready for breakfast, lunch, or dinner, so stopping for an hour to grab a meal and stretch out doesn't put too much of a dent on a long trip.

I would bet most Tesla drivers spend less cumulative time waiting at superchargers than conventional ICE vehicle owners do at gas pumps.

 

It is both the range and refuel speed, given you have enough fueling stations.

A new type of electric cars are coming out soon (2015), with 300 miles range and refuels in about 5 mins. It is called fuel cell vehicle.

 

iplug..."I would bet most Tesla drivers spend less cumulative time waiting at superchargers than conventional ICE vehicle owners do at gas pumps."


Likely because anyone who has enough money to own a Tesla has more than enough money to own a conventional vehicle or two to use on longer trips, or would just fly and rent. The Battery Swap and SuperCharger infrastructure is not in place for unlimited intrastate and interstate travel. I would also venture to say that non-commercial local travel range over 200 miles is by far the exception.

Don't get me wrong, in principle the Tesla is a great idea and I wish my income would allow. It's just not practical for the "average" commuter by a long shot.

For the record when I talked to Tesla by phone, they told me I could not travel from Fremont CA to the Dallas TX area using SuperChargers or battery swaps as the network was not in place. Was also told that using the SuperCharger is ok every now and then, but is not recommended frequently as this adversely effects battery life. These are their words, not mine.

I do not think that EVs are the end all solution for replacing gas and diesel vehicles, but they have captured a local niche market until something better comes along.

 

Right, just not when needed on the road. And no need to hook up the hybrid at home overnight.

 

Agree. My comparison was only about how much cumulative time was spent actually waiting while refueling.

An ICE vehicle may refuel every 300-400 miles and takes about 5 minutes. Since the Tesla is predominantly charged at home overnight, it takes only a few seconds of effort. Waiting for supercharging is by far the exception. So the cumulative refueling time spent waiting for the Tesla is still less over the life of the vehicle.

Agree, national infrastructure is not there yet for Tesla, but they are promising to get this done soon. Wish I could afford one too.

No problems here in California, but for cross country stuff, you're right, it's not ready yet. But by 2015 one should be able to go just about anywhere interstate (see rollout map at Supercharger | Tesla Motors).

 

And EV's definitely won't improve...because technology never advances.

Please explain to me what might work better long time with a better infrastructure than electric.

 

If I knew the answer to that I wouldn't be wasting my time talking about on here. You need fresh bait.

 

How long are you willing to wait? How long can you afford to wait?