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Water pump failure? (main engine)

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Travis Tortorige, Dec 9, 2013.

  1. Travis Tortorige

    Travis Tortorige New Member

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    Keep in mind that our driveway is after a absolutely brutal 10 mile climb.
    It started with a little 6" spot of coolant, directly under where the pump is.
    Then after a couple months a large puddle randomly.
    Long story short I honestly believed there was a pinhole in the radiator, so I added some K-Seal which I've had great luck with before on other vehicles.
    The leak persisted, and I realized that the K-Seal had never mixed with the coolant. It was still sitting on top of the reservoir. And I realized that the coolant spray was from the overflow tube hitting the running fans.

    So I ordered a pump and it arrived today.

    Now, I have no heat. Even after the brutal climb. The radiator resevoir is still full all the way up to the neck, and the radiator itself was cold when I got home.

    So, is it probable that the pump's propeller has come off? It seems like there is no circulation.
     
  2. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    It's common for the water pump to leak, and need replacement. The other thing is its hard to get all the air out of the system when you refill, which could account for your no heat problem. The other thing is its important to stick with the special Toyota red fluid without the K-seal probably not good. Many DIY threads here about repalciong coolant, but I am not the expert.
     
  3. Travis Tortorige

    Travis Tortorige New Member

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    That is what is so strange. It acts like it has a bubble in the system, but at the same time I have never added coolant, and the resevoir is always full, yet it has overheated enough to blow coolant out the overflow. I suspect that the boiling of the coolant has created a gas bubble that is trapped.

    Now, why would it have overheated? The fans work. And the damn car won't tell you how hot it's running (blows my mind)
     
  4. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    1. When checking the engine coolant level, you must remove the large black plastic cover over the radiator, take off the radiator cap, and look within the radiator. It is not sufficient to look at the overflow container, see the fluid is at the top mark, and decide all is well.

    2. Your engine obviously has air in the coolant system since the cabin heater is not working.

    3. I have previously posted on a) how to replace the engine coolant pump and b) how to change engine coolant including how to get air out of the system.
    How to replace engine coolant pump and thermostat | PriusChat

    4. Look at the engine coolant pump. Do you see a pinkish deposit on the inside of the pump pulley, or deposited on the air conditioner compressor? If yes, then the coolant bearing is leaking and the pump should be replaced. It is very unlikely that the pump impeller has disengaged.

    5. Figure out where the leak is, replace the failed part, and get rid of whatever sealant you had put into the system. Use Toyota Super Long Life Coolant when replenishing the coolant.
     
  5. Travis Tortorige

    Travis Tortorige New Member

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    Well you were correct. The radiator was definitely low, or empty. I put some crap coolant in as a test only because I will be flushing it soon.

    Coolant is now flowing to the heater core.

    But, it's spewing coolant out of the reservoir during normal, not stressful conditions. The coolant spewing is not super hot. I observed this even when parked. Then I cycled the power to allow for the minute or so idle sequence.

    What I noticed was something very odd. When the engine is idling, what is the load that is placed on the engine? ICE? Is that all? It was spewing coolant out the reservoir cap until the load was released just before the engine shut off. When the load was released, the spewing stopped.

    Scratch your head on that one.
     
  6. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    1. I suggest that you inspect the radiator neck for damage, and if none is seen, then replace the radiator cap. Certainly no fluid should be coming out of the radiator into the overflow tank unless the pressure in the radiator exceeds 15 psi or thereabouts.

    2. Inspect the radiator overflow tank for damage such as a crack in the plastic body. You need to figure out why fluid is coming out of it.

    3. Was the car in a front-end accident?

    4. When the engine is idling, there really is no load of significance. MG1 within the transaxle is counter-rotating to allow MG2 to remain motionless (since MG2 is directly tied to the transaxle output shaft.)
     
  7. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    ...ditto:)
    I was going to say if its not the radiator cap I do not know what.
    I am really not expecting too much heat on the system.
    One guy pulls a big trailer just has trouble in summer heat.
    If you had scanguage you could follow coolant temp.
    What is your approx. location with the big uphill to home?
     
  8. Joe 26

    Joe 26 Member

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    Spewing coolant into the recovery bottle can be a sign of a defective thermostat.
     
  9. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    ??

    If the thermostat is stuck closed, no fluid will flow to or from the radiator.
    If the thermostat is stuck open, fluid will flow as normal.
     
  10. Travis Tortorige

    Travis Tortorige New Member

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    Great to hear that the simple little cap may be to blame. I have blown enough head gaskets to get pretty derned concerned when coolant systems become over pressurized. I still haven't ruled that one out. Its little ticker has moved that car 299,540 miles.

    It has never seen a major front end collision.

    So, I'm preparing parts to do a lot of other needed work up front, and I'm going to throw a new cap in the mix. I'll remove the catch bottle and inspect it. Flush the crap out of the system (litterally), and ensure that purging takes place properly.

    Although, the little neck coming of the radiator has the overflow port below the radiator cap, IIRC. That would mean unregulated pressure is allowed into the catch bottle, where pressure management should be regulated. Shoot I don't know. Even that cap has a port that allows overflow coolant down a tube to who knows what. Probably just a dump. I'll dig into it and report back.

    Thank you so much for the advise. It is much appreciated. Everything on this car seems little and kinda toy like as I work on big diesels normally so this is a fun little project.
     
  11. Travis Tortorige

    Travis Tortorige New Member

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    Oh one more thing. If the radiator was empty and therefore the system extremely low. I am concerned about overheating during my climb home, but I've felt the block, coils, and head with my bare hands when I get home and it doesn't feel too hot, and no ticking while it's cooling. I think I can thank the cold weather we had last week. It was below zero, and I bet that kept things cool.

    Here is the drive that taxes the system. It's only about 2000' change, but most of that is within 5 miles and it really pushes that motor to the max. I drive below the speed limit because too much throttle causes a vibration at high RPMs. But I've tried going from my careful throttle position to WOT and noticed that there is barely a discernible change in acceleration.
     
  12. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    Sadly, that was my first thought too. To be honest, I think you'll be lucky if there isn't a blown HG involved.
     
  13. dorunron

    dorunron Senior Member

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    Tend to agree with uart, you might want to check the oil and see if it looks milky. The coolant should not be surging like you describe.

    Your trip home doesn't look that bad to me. Familiar with that area. I used to spend a lot of time in the area when I was a younger man.

    Hope you get it sorted.
     
  14. Joe 26

    Joe 26 Member

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    I may not be able to explain it, but I have seen it several times on other types of vehicles. Perhaps the thermostat opens only partially, perhaps late and with a rush of pressure.
     
  15. jadziasman

    jadziasman Prius owner emeritus

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    Thermostats rarely fail - but sometimes they do. I owned a 92 Camry for a while and the thermostat on it had stuck open. The engine never reached operating temperature in cool (<50°F) weather. I replaced it and voila, warm and toasty.

    Engine water pumps either fail by leaking or making excessive noise. Luckily, the one on my Prius was just noisy. Too bad the OP didn't correctly troubleshoot the issue before experiencing excessive coolant loss.

    Here's my vote regarding the OP's Prius: blown head gasket. Not the end of the world but still a PITA on a Prius because of what must be removed from the top of the engine before replacement of this relatively low cost part can be achieved. Not my cup of chai. I'd rather let someone else have all the fun.
     
  16. Travis Tortorige

    Travis Tortorige New Member

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    I'm starting to believe the radiator cap did have something to do with it. I noticed that when removed after complete cool down, it was either holding a vacuum or pressure in the system. When it was holding pressure, the coolant would bubble out of the neck for a few seconds.

    I put a new cap on, and didn't see any new coolant spew when I got home. Tomorrow I'm going to clean the thing up and test again, I'll let you know.
     
  17. Travis Tortorige

    Travis Tortorige New Member

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    And I have no problem changing a head gasket. Just from the looks of things in there, I could probably get it done in a couple hours, if the deck does not need surfacing. Not that I want to do it on a motor this old and worn.