2015 PIP - Ten Mile Electric Range

Says that current PiP has 11 mile range, but only 6 continous all-electric miles, so 'at least 10 miles' continuous all electric would be an improvement. People have a tough time accepting it takes a BIG, EXPENSIVE battery to accelerate and move a car with electricity.

 

I hope you are not reading too much into it. They are talking about the fact that the current PiP can only get 6 miles EV in the EPA test before engine goes on. So a future CA PiP must get a least 10 miles 100% EV in the EPA test, in California, to qualify for CARB ZEV credits. So your real comparison is 10/6 = 67% improvement.

 

I think they've accepted that a BIGGER, MORE EXPENSIVE battery can accelerate a car very fast with electricity.

 

That makes a lot of sense.

What had to be changed to pass the EPA, inadequate power or an EV speed limitation ?

 

Toyota doesn't want to be told put at least X size of battery in the PiP. I don't blame them.

Geez, I don't think they are going to decrease the PiP range. Toyota said they don't want to be mandated to build a smaller car with X amount of all electric range.

Isn't the goal to put the most high mpg cars in the hands of the most owners?? Toyota is doing pretty darn good at that, the best in fact. Let them and the market figure it out, not have CARB tell them what to do.

I'm not interested in the overcooked cars like Focus electric with no cargo room, Fusion Energi with no trunk space, iMiEV that doesn't sell. I'm interested in advanced tech cars moving up the sales ladder vs. conventional cars, light trucks and SUVs. Highest on the list is Prius.

2015 Toyota Prius: Next Hybrid Aims For 55 MPG, More Room, Better Handling

 

If the average these days is 12 miles on EV, and the EPA tests are consistent and it's a 67% improvement - then we can look at an average of 20 miles EV which is CONSISTENT to what they have been saying, trying to get 20 miles EV. I would get it! With 20 miles EV, 55 mpg average and a 10.9 gallon tank (the same...) that would mean we could easily get at least 550 miles per tank (or 570) - a regular Prius would get 605 miles a tank...I would be tempted to do the PiP (my current 3rd gen Prius is consistent with 520-530 miles per tank).

Game on Toyota, please hurry it up

 

i'm getting 15 now so that would be 25? guess i know when i'll be trading up pips. way to go toyota!

 

I do not know. But I will say the EPA MPGe rating on the window sticker might look more stellar like we were thinking the last time.

 

Yeah.

<<the sound of one hand clapping>>

 

wjtracy's post #3 is exactly what this is all about, the continuous part of EV testing for ZEV. Now it is 6/11 and will be at least 10/15 between 20?
I posted this yesterday: Any thoughts on the next generation Prius Plug in?? | Page 2 | PriusChat

Also don't forget that we expect hybrid mpg to go up to 55. Other plug-in hybrids imo missed the hybrid efficieny that cycledrum mentioned in post # 6. Some plug-ins are neither good EVs nor good Hybrids, and utility?

 

A big(er, more) expensive battery gets bigger Fed (and several state) incentives. The present incentives may not last forever, but for now, you'd think that'd make Toyota want to pull the trigger on a 20kWh or 25kWh pack. Then, if/when incentives go away, the tooling/R&D etc will be paid down enough that a bigger Toyota traction pack might be more affordable presuming reduced costs.
.

 

Question, are the incentives separate in each of its class? IE, there's the $2,500 incentive for smaller battery packs. If Toyota creates a larger one for $7,500 incentive, does the counter reset to 200k vehicles?

I think Toyota is hedging their bets, their PiP price will drop even more and the $2,500k might be over. I think they plan for that compensation while other EVs who run out of the $7,500 incentive will be in trouble because those prices would be ridiculous then.

 

It's likely the $7,500 continue beyond its present sunset date - because the Feds have a HUGE state in GM's success - believing as GM goes, so goes the nation. Just like solo car pool expirations ... all it takes is legislation to wind the date back ... and print more paper money. I know it sounds jaded, but it's not like ballancing the budget is a goal any longer - and saving fossil fuel works for so many different reasons.
.

 

A global vehicle, not just for the US market, though the most important.

 

I think there will be a place for PHVs like the Prius. They further reduce gasoline usage over the plugless. Toyota just wants to sell such a car and get ZEV credits for it. They can just sell the Rav4 EV for longer, or take a bath selling their FCV for those. The real issue might be that without ZEV credit the PPI won't qualify for HOV stickers.

 

I would expect the dedicated Plug-In vehicle(NS4) to have more ev range. I think PIP with 15 ev/55mpg, New & Improved in every area would work for me, same shape, slightly longer, wider, currently a little too tall for its length.

 

It is 200k regardless of the credit per vehicle.

The question is what will the price will be? The price reduction for 2014 brought the plug premium closer to what was speculated to be before release. The advance PPI still costs as much as a Volt with it. Will Toyota lower the price for the plug further, and/or offer the PPI in a lower trim? Their argument against the CARB's 10 mile minimum is that it doesn't allow consumer choice between bigger battery and lower price, but up to this point the PPI hasn't done a great job on the price part.

 

But there is no word of the NS4 even coming to market.

 

Right! no words on that, but I think instead of putting a plug in every Toyota hybrid, Camry, Avalon, etc... a separate/dedicated Plug-In will be offered, more like Chevy Volt.

It may also be easier to market such a plug-in versus a plug-in of an existing hybrid, "because of usual cost differences, payback calculations by some"