Would you buy another diesel?

Sold my 02 Jetta TDI & bought a Prius. The 02 had 199K miles. I like the mpg but the maintance cost was eatting me up. I had electric harness burn up, fuses burn up, the AC fly wheel seared itself off, and other issues. I got tired of having to cut my car off at the drive in window. What really bugged me was paying 75 cents more per gallon. Whats the use of getting good MPG but pay more for fuel. It was a fun car to drive.
So when I wanted a new car I looked at the Passat Diesel, but rented a Prius for the weekend. Ended up with the Prius because of the MPG & it checked everything on my list what I wanted. The VW maintance on the automatic transmission is $700 every 40K miles. Turns out Hybrids are considered one of the most realiable cars made.

 

I've got probably 20,000 miles of stick time in diesel cars and trucks, but I've never owned one myself.
I don't have to.
They're just not for me.

IMHO the fuel cost, and the diesel premium make this a non-starter as personal transportation, although a friend of mine is tinkering with homemade diesel.
Even at my humble hourly rate, the juice just isn't worth the squeeze for that to work for me even if diesels that are available on this side were mechanically as reliable as they should be----which according to my mechanic friends is absolutely NOT the case at present.

So.....
High buy in.
20-30 percent added fuel costs.
Questionable reliability.
Questionable (at best) fuel efficiency benefit over hybrids.
Would you buy another diesel?

Nope!
But then again....I haven't yet been suckered into buying my FIRST diesel.

Ah...
YMMV!

 

Yes.

 

Yes. An older one. Not one newer than 2007. That's when the complications came for emissions.

I have a diesel Excursion 7.3L and it cost me 17k in 2006 with 163k miles. Now it has 260k one it and its worth roughly 17k dollars still. It also weighs 8000lbs and gets 23mpg on the highway if I drive it like my Prius. I chipped it and it's amazing. Its so strong and reliable and easy to maintain.

Nexus 7 ? 4

 

That residual value does take some of the sting out of the roughly 17k worth of fuel it took to drive that 97k miles.

 

I think the comparsion is between the diesel cars. People who have the truck use it to haul big things. The cars are just for driving. If you go on the forum for diesel cars you will see the maintance issues. A common theme is "do your own work & a manual transmission." Very few people do either anymore.

 

The probably has to be edited to specify VW diesels. Up to this year they were the only diesel cars really sold for over a decade. Mercedes also offered some, but they aren't going to be common, and the entry price likely meant most you could afford it, didn't care about the maintenance cost. So, is it diesel maintenance issues or VW maintenance issues?

A manual transmission is a good suggestion for any high mileage and/or old age car. They are just more robust than an automatic over the long haul. Even for those that DIY maintenance and repairs, an automatic repair wouldn't be possible to do. A history of transmission problems in a model isn't the engine's fault. There is a defect in the transmission itself, or the transmission used wasn't designed to handle the output of the engine it was mated too.

The cost of diesel is major hurdle for buyers. The cost per mile between a petrol and diesel equipped model is close though. That's using EPA numbers. Considering most petrol model average less than EPA and diesels more, the diesel might come out ahead in fuel costs. Of course, that doesn't help sell the diesel when the buyer is considering other brands and models including hybrids.

 

You also have to add the cost of additives and fuel filters to the price of using diesel fuel, too.

 

My quick stare and compare suggests that at best, some of the VeeDubs might come out very slightly ahead in fuel costs but then you still have the buy-in and higher maintenance costs.

They're making forward progress to be sure but where is that going to leave you in 20 years? Gas burners are getting better too and so we'll have oil burners that are "about" as clean and economical as gas burners. Both can currently burn bio-fuels, and I'm thinking that the gas burners are a better fit for PHEVs.

Use diesels for trains and trucks all you want but I just don't see the big advantage in using them for POVs, especially in America.

 

It's more than very slightly ahead. Compare a 40mpg Passat to a 26mpg Passat (fuel economy obtained from Fuelly). Even with gasoline at 3.354 and diesel at 3.886 (from EIA), the diesel is 30% cheaper on fuel.

 

There was a study posted, that did a TCO comparison between diesel and petrol models. The diesels mostly came out ahead even with the maintenance and upfront costs.

The T2B5 minimum for diesels is also the minimum for petrols. Going from memory here, the current VW diesels are bin 4 or LEV. Many of Toyota's models are just certified for the minimum bin 5 outside Carb states.

As long as the car companies feel the public can't handle a small car pulling a trailer, and can up sell a truck, that is true. In the UK, the BMW 320d, the 328 here, is rated for 1800kg with the factory installed hitch. That's nearly 2 standard tons. Just shy of the V6 Ranger's rating I once had. It does surpass the class III hitch that was on that truck.

 

The full report is available at http://www.dieselforum.org/files/dmfile/20130311_CD_UMTRITCOFinalReport_dd2017.pdf.

All current diesels are certified ULEV in the CARB states. The BMW 328d actually meets the emission requirements of SULEV, although it's "only" certified ULEV.

 

I do not know why they will not build a small diesel truck? Not everyone need to pull a house.

SCH-I535 ?

 

Good report. I do not think it added the cost per gallon difference. Right now it is 75 cents a gallon difference. The diesel has a 16 gallon tank. The prius does not.

SCH-I535 ?

 

That's why I immediately disregard "studies" done by cheerleaders.
Right now....there's a bit of an advantage in getting $25,000 hybrid over some of the conventional gas burners...sometimes.
You "might" be able to wiggle into something like a Golf for less than thirty kilobucks (like I might make Master Chief someday) BUT...then you'd have to have great luck with maintenance/repair costs and get 20-percent better overall fuel efficiency than Priuses do just to break even.

Spoiler Alert: TDI's don't get twenty percent more fuel efficiency than Priuses do. I'm sure that there are some that do (I've slipped to 48 combined, but I drive mine like I stole it....cause it's not mineand I don't buy the gas! )
So......while it's theoretically possible that somebody at http://www.tdiskickbuttfurums.com is knocking down 60-mpg and has low maintenance and no repair costs????
I'm not worried about changing my call sign to ETCM(SS)

 

Well, I do have small, medium and large vehicles. So I use the truck for towing my 6000lb travel trailer and my dad's back hoe. I also use it for taking large amounts of people on trips with my church. Also for getting in and out of my cabin in the middle of no where . The Prius doesn't do those things well. I figure it's efficient for it's purposes and there's no other vehicle I could use.

I wish there were a huge hybrid that was as capable. It seems only VIA is close and they seem a little like they aren't entirely together.

Nexus 7 ? 4

 

Unless the person is doing extensive highway miles, no diesel, or petrol for that matter, is going to beat the Prius. Lets keep in mind not everyone wants a Prius, or that there isn't a hybrid in every segment. For the person that has decided on a Golf, Passat, or F350, the diesel version comes out ahead in total costs over the time span of the study. Part of that is because diesels hold their value better than the petrol model. Which is part of the reason the Prius has a low TCO.

 

For the same reasons that there are few gas small trucks to choose from?

The reality is that the cars sold in the US could tow, and they do have manufacturer tow ratings overseas. But small SUVs and trucks have a higher profit margin, and low gas prices means few question the 'need a truck to tow' wisdom here.

 

No small pick-up yet but there is now this: 2014 RAM 1500 EcoDiesel V6 | Diesel Engine Truck | RAM Trucks

I believe GM's going to bring back the Colorado/Canyon with a diesel:
Chevy Colorado, GMC Canyon midsize pickup trucks to get diesel engines - Autoblog

On the subject of VW diesel pricing, the days of charging MSRP on TDIs are gone. You can apparently get $2.5k off MSRP easily, maybe more after October's sales numbers. VW sales were down significantly compared to last year and are down overall on the year.

 

I owned a lot of Gm 1980's car diesels- and a diesel Chevette ( 60mpg at a steady 45mph). I was told the dealerships don't want to service diesel cars - and the refineries have no incentive to make auto diesel- you see, due to the way crude oil is refined, they can get more gallons of gasoline than diesel from the refining process. So, if suddenly the demand for car diesel fuel shot up by 10%, they would end up with extra gasoline at the refinery - and that would drive down the wholesale price of gasoline.