Honda Accord Hybrid: 50 MPG City - clone Toyota

Ford appears in their implementation of the psd, to allow for high speed ice off operation. I would guess toyota would do a similar small design change instead of adding a clutch, unless they have a big battery phev with the same drivetraine. At the low power levels of mg1 in the prius, extra losses from spinning it should be low, but in a more powerful implentation like the hihy a clutch may be helpful.

The accord hybrid system seems like a fairly elegant solution. At low speeds it is a serial hybrid, which should be extremely smooth like an bev (but noise will be similar to camry hybrid, and disjointed from speed). At higher speeds it will act like a very efficient car in top gear, but with a possible electric boost for power, instead of down shifting. The big question is did they make the gear ratio right. My guess is this thing is geared properly for 50mph-70mph, and should be very efficient here. If someone is primarily at 35mph or 45mph roads this may not be a good fit. YMMV.

 

Bob you understand physics, right? Pick your acceleration. 20 hp will accelerate a 3000 lb car like the prius 0-60 in over 30 seconds. I am not sure how fast you accelerate, but to me this feels quite slow

Kenectic energy = 1/2 mass times velocity squared.
There are losses that requires more energy to get to speed.
power x time = Energy.

Now your chart seemed to show steady state, which I rarely go at at 5 mph. At steady 5mph the prius or accord hybrid will be using very little power, and likely drawing from the battery, then cycling the ice to charge it. This uses mainly the electrical path

Please plug in any numbers you read off your scan gage for engine rpm and power, then plug them into the formula, i gave you to convert rpm and torque to power. The power split is dependent on mg1 and ring gear rpm. The power split is not constant.

 

right, i don't think they were looking for 30k accord at 27k, just a more stripped down camry like version for people who want the hybrid at a lower price point. i don't have any idea how many of each package toy sells. we didn't buy the base because of the lack of power seat.

 

you could have fooled me because I think I took this picture at work about a month ago ... and maybe posted it here on this forum in another thread the same time frame



I'm just sayin' ...
BTW, the owner let me test drive and I felt no more comfortable/uncomfortable in its drivers' seat than then I do in the generation II & III Prius. And as I've mentioned before - height wise - I'm about 6'-5" tall. normally I don't argue seat comfort because it's subjective - some will find one seat horrible the other finds it to be just fine. Sothe people who think their comfort situation matches everybody else .... well they just don't get it.
.

 

Nice I gave the metrics 20hp results in 0-60 at slower than 30 seconds. This feels slow to me, but some on this board seem to trickle acclerate. If you look up the prius bsfc, you will find 20hp (about 15 kw) is at the lower end of the efficient range of the gen III prius. In gen II, you need to add more acceleration than this to be efficient, as it falls bellow the most efficient range. Still I don't want to prejudge your personal preference, use your own numbers read from the scan gauge or other instrumentation. The higher the acceration (power) the higher the engine rpm if the ice is on. The higher the ice rpm the less efficient the hsd transmission will be at low speeds, but this is made up for by having the ice more efficient.

No assumptions except that frictional losses do not greatly affect the power split. The power split is not constant as the torque split is in the hsd. Again the proportion of power, ignoring differences in frictional losses going to the wheels and mg1 is

0.72 (rpm ring gear)/ (0.72 (rpm ring gear) + 0.28 (rpm mg1)).

Control laws decide how much power the ice provides and how much is sourced or sinked from the battery, and this does not matter for this equation, that comes out of the simple physics of the hsd. The rpm of the ring gear is set by the speed of the car. The rpm of the ice is determined by the control software of the prius, and the rpm of mg1 is determined by the speed of the car and speed of the engine. Things are fairly straight forward here, and you can read off the bsfc chart the likely rpm/torque line and determine rpm from power.

 

The plug in has been available since the beginning of the year or so in two states, yes. The plain old hybrid isn't out yet, which is what the fuelly entry seems to imply.

 

I believe they were referring to Accord Hybrid, not plug-in in response to some dude on Fuelly.com whose got his 28 MPG 2013 conventional Accord listed as the Hybrid.

The Hybrids are probly on going on rails out of Ohio pretty soon.

btw, would be interesting to see a pic of you in 2nd gen with dr. seat reasonably upright. How does your head not hit the roof? Several people helped me get stuffed into cwerdna's 2nd gen at a meetup. Was pretty obvious I didn't fit well in it.

It's all personal though, one person's trash is another's treasure.

 

Picture of 2014 Accord Hybrid trunk which loses 3 cu ft off non-hyb Accord. Trunk should have a full span of width since 12V battery is under the hood (Fusion Hybrid trunk narrowed due to side walls).

Also a good review here -

2014 Honda Accord Hybrid [w/video] First Drive - Autoblog

 

".... The 2014 Accord Hybrid drives well, has a litany of creature comforts, and returns excellent gas mileage, all in a package that will appeal to those who find the Toyota Prius and other hybrids too cramped."


The Ultra-Commuter: 2014 Honda Accord Hybrid - Popular Mechanics

 

Prius seems to thrive in slow and stop and go traffic. In high 60 to 70 F temps, summer fuel, dry, level roads near sea level I routinely get home after 28 mile r/t trip with high 50s mpg, maybe 60 on gage for about 54 or 5 actual. This car loves slow and go, stop and go, stop lights to get higher MPGs

MPGs are less if sailing at 65 MPH to work. Then it's 'only' 53 or 4 ish on gage. Winter blend fuel and low temps on the way though.

Hopefully HAH can thrive in stop and go too.

 

"In "average" driving with no jackrabbit starts, no last-minute braking and strict adherence to speed limits, the top-of-the-line Accord Hybrid Touring we drove over a 47-mile combination city-country route returned 49.1 mpg overall....

But in a pair of much shorter drives near the University of Texas San Antonio campus, two other 2014 Honda Accord Hybrid models didn't fare as well. On a 9.2-mile run we attained just 41.8 mpg in a midlevel EX-L, while the lighter base EX over a slightly truncated 8.6-mile version of the same route delivered 42.9 mpg. Fuel efficiency on those drives suffered a little from an abundance of small hills that kept the two-motor hybrid system from really strutting its stuff...


there is no actual transmission, CVT or otherwise. The electric motors do the job.."

2014 Honda Accord Hybrid First Drive on Edmunds.com

 

"And here's the takeaway from our test-drive: We easily hit that vaunted 50 mpg mark without really even trying. In fact, after spending hours in the new Accord Hybrid and driving on a variety of roads, we averaged fuel economy in the low 50-mpg range. Our initial experience was, like the Accord itself, seamless and natural. We didn't have to "hyper-mile" to achieve 50 mpg by sweltering in the Texas heat with no A/C or by babying the throttle. We just drove normally and the Accord's hybrid powertrain figured out the rest."


2014 Honda Accord Hybrid First Review: Hitting 50 mpg and Beyond - Kelley Blue Book

 

that trunk looks similar to hycam, but i cannot find hyacc specs anywhere.

 

I've seen

13.1 cu ft. (TCH) vs 12.8 (HAH) listed in a review.

 

Which, in fact, shows how cramped the Prius feels!... 21.6 cu ft trunk...
2013 Toyota Prius Interior | U.S. News Best Cars

 

Does the 21.6 cu ft Prius space refer to the area with rear seats upright? If you crammed the area full up to the roof, then it seems you'd be subject to projectiles that could fly into the front seats in a forward collision, unless securely tied down with a cargo net. How many use a cargo net or ropes?

Any trunk offers secure, always hidden storage space. A hatchback's cargo is only as secure as the tie-down method.

Also, if you leave your car with something of value in cargo area, how much area is available underneath the tonneau cover?? It doesn't seem to be even 10 cu ft as the load floor is high.

 

• "There are some downsides to this latest Prius, however. Most concern the interior, such as too many cheap-feeling plastics, an awkward driving position and the lack of an iPod adapter on most models." -- Edmunds(2011)

 

This is true and if Toyota or someone else offered a really good cargo barrier like we have in our Volvo's I'd buy one. That said, not every load is necessarily a projectile. A hatchback can swallow many loads that are entirely not possible in a sedan, yet too large to practically leave the cargo area in a colission.