Diesel Prius

Now what have I missed?

The ice constantly stop and starts, diesels don't start well, they don't really stop well.
Other than that small problem, full speed ahead.

 

Have a serious think about it. Peugeot have a diesel hybrid and it costs more than the Prius and gets less to the gallon. To clean the exhaust of a diesel is more expensive than in a petrol engine and even then it is no where near as clean on more of the harmful emissions. The engine is also heavier and more expensive to make.

Diesel is also dead in World markets as it's just Europe where they sell due to artificial subsidies on the cost of fuel (other than in the UK). Diesels are struggling to meet emission requirements in all but third world markets. A modern Euro 5 diesel emits 20 to 30 times more NOx than a Prius. An older 2005- 2009 Euro 4 diesel emits about 200 times more! Next time you're in a city complaining of smog, or your child or grandchild suffering from asthma, consider that fact!

There are many pro's to diesel. It's great for trucks and large 4x4's like the Range Rover or cars that tow. It is not great for smaller cars or town use.

Oh and one last thing. DPF's are a Royal pita for clogging up in diesel engines that start and stop a lot. Not suited for a hybird.

 

Noisier, smellier, more expensive, more polluting, doesn't deal well with frequent starts and stops....no surprise Toyota doesn't make a diesel hybrid.

 

I'm 100% on board with a diesel Prius. On some other planet - but not here.

 

Atkinson cycle engines has issues, Electric motors help hide those issues.
Low torque at low RPMs
Low HP at high RPMs

What Diesel issues were you hoping to hide via an electric motor?
It certainly will struggle to do start/stop, as a diesel is very hard to start.

 

With Toyota telling us that they have new Atkinson gas engines ready to go with efficiency in the low 40's%, the diesel has not got much economy advantage, especially one in US emissions trim. Add to that the problems of getting the diesel exhaust hot enough, long enough to clear the DPF filter. In my northern US area, add the problem of diesel starting and fuel gelling problems in winter, with diesel being atleast 10% more expensive. I don't want one.

 

i think you answered your own question in your four bullet points.

 

Diesel passenger cars and 4WD all but disappeared from the Japanese market in about 2005. Where a diesel engine was a relatively common option in many makes and models of sedans in the 1980s, it became impossible to register a diesel in the more populated prefectures in the 2000s. While most European cars are sold in Japan, diesels were not.

From the 1990s, Japan was losing market share in Europe because it did not have modern diesel engines. Toyota factories in Europe and the UK produced such engines for the market and sales increased.
The Nissan X-Trail DCi "clean diesel" was the first to re-enter the Japanese market in about 2010 and I saw (and heard) a Bluetec Mercedes CDI around that time. Mazda has released diesel SUVs in Japan too.
Diesel fuel is normally cheaper than regular petrol in Japan.

A diesel Prius would not sell in Japan and therefore it will never be made in Japan. A diesel Prius would only be built in a factory in Europe.
If sales of the Volvo V60 Plug-in turbo-diesel show a promising market, then you might see a diesel Prius. It would be very interesting if they retained the low-emissions objective and really tried to eliminate particulates and NOx, even if this was at the expense of some economy and convenience.

 

Having had a diesel vehicle since March 1999, I do a "not so slow burn" when checking fuel prices. Diesel fuel is substantially higher than premium unleaded. I feel much better with a Prius Plug In, using regular unleaded. With 4000 miles and only two post purchase fill ups in eight months, sad, but I'm not feeling the regular unleaded euphoria either. Gas stations? I'll pass.

 

Maybe this: Highest NO2 of any capital city in Europe again | Clean Air in London
And Grumpycabbie summed it up best in post #3
Gas prices(1 station) in Central Florida today+all the baggage of diesels(tank of urea, DPF)!
Reg. unleaded: $3.25
Mid-grade: $3.45
Premium: $3.67
Diesel: $3.87

 

London stinks! Literally.

I think Londoners are so used to it, they barely notice it any longer, but coming from a small rural town I noticed the stench of London about 40 miles from the center when I went there the other year. As you get into the city itself it stinks BIG time. Imagine standing next to the exhaust of an old hgv (semi?) truck accelerating up a hill and you suddenly get a mouth full of the smoke. You choke and cough. Well that's like London all the time.

Nice place to visit, lots to see. Foul pollution spoils it. Sorry, just being truthful.

 

Apparently Toyota does not need diesel in Japan market scenario. In the USA we have a great many new diesel models coming to market (non hybrid), I think to meet our (future) USA MPG standards (CAFE), manufactures are going to need to have diesel or hybrid or plug-ins in their line-up. Given Toyota's market lead on gaso hybrids, they can sit where they are and meet most global governmental goals for higher MPG. USA is currently favoring plug-ins and maybe fuel cells as far as tax policy, so that leaves diesel and and hybrids to fend for themselves in the market.

 

Not sure a Plug-in Prius Diesel or Plug-in anything has enough pros to justify such a thing. But wouldn't this make a bit more sense with a Plug-in vehicle like the Volt?

One of the big problems mentioned in this thread is the frequent start/stop issues which would be a challenge with a plug-in diesel. But the Volt usually operates in "range-extending" mode when needed. So unlike the Plug-in Prius, when the Volt’s usable battery capacity is exhausted, the ICE fires up and feeds the battery which then drives the car (except above 70 mph when the ICE is mechanical connected directly to the wheels).

Theoretically, this would minimize diesel startups/stops. So for most commutes, the diesel would never be started. On longer commutes, however, if the battery is depleted, the diesel would likely be able to be started just once for the remainder of the commute and would likely reach sufficient warm-up time before stopped.

 

But, if you're almost never using the diesel engine in a Plug-in, where then are the economics of paying premium for a diesel.

 

Right, so by "almost never using", this would be true in the sense that it would not be used on most days. However, it could account for, say 25-50% of total miles driven - so just for long trips.

It might work for someone who commutes 30-35 miles in between charges with a car the range of the Volt and also does 1-2 dozen 100+ mile trips a year, maybe including a few long road trips. This may fit the driving patterns of some current Volt owners, but probably much fewer current Plug-in Prius owners. So yeah, would not work on anything resembling the current Plug-in Prius.

 

Volvo's approach in the V60 PHEV is a diesel on the front wheels, electric at the rear and both capable of driving the car. Here's Fully Charged with TV's Robert Llewellyn.

 

Very similar set up to the Peugeot diesel hybrid. That was a great drive surprisingly, though I'd not want to take a punt on one. Peugeot and electrics of any sort don't go well together.

 

So basically what I'm hearing is (even though they weren't mentioned anywhere in this thread) Audi is going to fail at selling their diesel cars because they're diesel. I highly doubt it.

A diesel hybrid would be the best combo for any car (or truck for that matter). For example, the original motor in the Prius was a 1.5 liter motor which had to be wound out in order to produce any torque/hp. In 2010, Toyota changed to a rpm-regulated 1.8 liter. Why? Torque. And why did they regulate the rpms? Fuel economy. So throw a diesel hybrid in the picture and now you have a hybrid that can actually perform given it's heavy weight.

So saying a diesel hybrid in a car isn't a good option is nonsense. Audi TDI e-tron proves this at the 24hrs of LeMans. A Prius needs supplemental torque from a motor that only a diesel could deliver, not a gas motor.

Read The Toyota Way. Toyota traded hybrid transmission with Ford in exchange for their diesel truck technology. I'll bet you see a diesel hybrid in a Tundra before a Prius...unfortunately.

 

Red line in Gen 1 4500 RPMs
Red line in Gen 2 5000 RPMs
Red line in Gen 3 5200 RPMs

Every engine has a red line somewhere.