Cadillac vs Tesla . . . LOL!

Not when you factor in the cost of extra batteries needed to compensate for weight, power and reduced aerodynamics.

Well, GM had better watch out here too.
Tesla might just beat them to the punch.
Tesla Pickup Truck | Forums | Tesla Motors



Or, it could be their former boss, Bob Lutz:
VIA Motors' Edge Over Tesla in Electric Hybrid Pickup Truck Market | VIA Motors

 

I'll take what I can get, but you bring up an excellent point. My company's G3 is acceptable at hauling cargo, provided that it's not really heavy or large. IIRC, the cargo capacity of this car is 750# including pax. If you stuff 5 LA Americans into the car???
That doesn't really leave a lot of hauling capacity (to say nothing of interior volume) for cargo.That's not completely different from your normal entry-level 5-door front-driver.
However (comma!) in my experience the tow rating for the BEVs that the 99-percenters can afford to drive is somewhat diminutive.....like ZERO for the Volt, Leaf, Pip, etc.
I heard that the Tesla S-model does have a 2000# tow capacity, and if this is true then it's closer than anything that the bigs have done so far.
(Musk is a jerk, but a very talented one!! Tell him or anyone else that he cannot do something at your professional peril! )
All of this is outside the scope of the BEV 's current market, but they're going to have to noodle it out really soon or the electro-car is going to continue to be a play-pretty for the eco-chic.
Look at sales figures and tell me what the top five private vehicle types sold here are.
Usually it goes something like: truck-truck-car-car-car, despite the face that the trucks are more expensive and use WAAAAAY more fuel. Then?
Look at the numbers.

It's not a factor in the eco-wars now, but ignore those numbers at your peril.

Elon probably will not.

 

This is an invalid comparison. Those vehicles were not meant for towing.
Judging what a EV truck could do based on those cars is not reflecting the fact that electric motors are ideal for towing........the weak spot (at this time) is the battery, not the motors. The problem is range, not power.

An EV Truck would absolutely DESTROY a Cummins, PowerStroke or Duramax in torque.....and 100% of it at 0 rpm.
737 lb-ft (1000 N-m) should be easy and even 1000 lb-ft should not be out of reach.

This is why locomotives are diesel-ELECTRIC, as are many submarines (though I'm not sure about the one in your icon )

POP QUIZ:

What has more torque.......

This Chevy:


Or this Chevy?

 

Actually the USN has a limited number of Diesel-Electric submarines.
Like.... Zero.

I wasn't dissing EVs or comparing anything.
I was simply pointing out that there are NO BEVs capable of replacing my Pickup truck at present.
The S-model comes close, but how much are they?
A $17,000 Elantra has something like a 3200# towing capacity, but there are bulky items that a Prius can HAUL that an Elantra cannot.
It's about balance.

Which one is less expensive?
Which one can you haul a 2x4 in without looking like a shishkabob?
What is the Spark's tow rating, since it has all that torque?
Having an nice person-ton of torque in a Yaris-sized car is cool, I guess.....but why do people buy trucks?




If you're into real torque comparisons?
I have the truck and the tow strap.

 

Ok, is this going to get nasty?

 

I was talking about the inherant ability. You can definitely design a bev to tow, current implementations were just not designed that way.

Gas 2 | What is the future of fuel? What's new? What's next? Since 2007, Gas 2 has covered a rapidly changing world coming to terms with its oil addiction.

compare and contrast lutz and musk

I wish someone would tell him he can't stop terrorism.

 

Chevy Spark EV: $26,700
Chevy Silverado crew cab: $28,100

And that's before income tax credits and state rebates. So, subtract up to $7,500 federal and $2,500 California and a new Spark EV would cost me about $17,000 before sales tax and DMV.

Destination charges add $800-$900 extra.

 

i accept your challenge.
You apparently didn't get I was comparing powertrains, NOT vehicles.

(Yes, I get that appearing "macho/manly" is very important for the truck crowd.....perhaps more so than actual capabilities)

Anyhow, give me the Spark EV motor (more torque than Model S motor!) along with the Model S's 85 Kwh pack.
I get to to toss these into my EV Silverado.

You get the gasoline Silverado.

Bring your tow strap!! I'll be hauling your sissy-little fossil-fueled dinosaur uphill, ALL DAY long.

 

Apparently the Tesla S has a 2000lb tow rating.
Range might be a problem for the leaf, but it shouldn't an issue with a PHV. Being FWD does put a limit on towing(the S is RWD). I suspect with non-AWD HSD vehicles, the issue is the traction control. Hooking up a trailer reduces the vehicle weight over the front axle. It's why FWD tend to have lower tow ratings. It could make Toyota's traction control on a hybrid to sensitive, leading to customer complaints and possibly unsafe situations in traffic.

This could be a reason for the others, or they are worried about the eCVT transmission, or for the same reason that virtually no car in the US has a tow rating. Because they want to up sell you a SUV or truck. The identical models in Europe will have a tow rating. The Sonic is 0 in the US. In other markets it's 800kg to 1100kg, higher with trailer brakes. The new BMW 328d has no rating here, and it should with a diesel's low end torque. VW diesels used to have one up to a ton. The BMW has 1800kg in the UK.

I've heard Hyundai's having tow ratings, but can't find it on their site. Perhaps, the companies simply don't put the info out there, which works out to the same thing. Volvo appears to be the only company the puts tow ratings for their cars on their site.

 

Towing also requires braking and suspension, and can affect handling. These things can easily be added to a rear wheel drive or AWD bev, but current designs are not there. Tesla X will be the first designed to really tow. That doesn't mean you can't occasionly tow on these other hv, phev, and bev but this compromises the design in ways the manufacturer did not design it for nor do they want to be held liable.

 

Excellent points.
Many people (who do not tow that often or at all) forget that suspension, brake, and cooling all have to be beefed up for towing. Cooling probably less so for BEVs, but you're also going to bite deeply into your range capability. That's not going to be a problem for most folks, but it's another engineering challenge, and happily somebody out there is already trying to noodle that out.

I'll be here.
My truck is only 5 years old, so it will be too.

Actually? The only reason I have the P/U is for hauling. I can tow with the other two vehicles.
The "macho/manly" thing may be important to some, but my vehicles have to earn their keep!
My towing requirements are very humble - probably within the capabilities of the S-model, since the heaviest thing I routinely (2-3x a month) tow is a 1200# lawn mower.
The only reason I didn't replace the Sierra with an Elantra last year is that the truck is paid for, and I'm not about to spend 5-6 figures trying to save money.
By the time the Sierra goes Tango-Uniform, we'll see where the BEVs are.
I hope that they meet the expectations of this Sparky-Silvery thing that you have in your fertile imagination.

LOL!
Well......you certainly can talk the talk!
You don't have to sweat the hill thing though. It's flat here.
Also....my 1500 is a bone stock base model with street tires.
I do, of course have the advantages of having a real versus imaginary vehicle and $0.00 for a monthly note.

 

My imagination must be very fertile indeed!

Read:
http://green.autoblog.com/2013/08/09/via-motors-vtrux-phev-truck-stands-ready-to-power-your-block/

 

Only $79K, cheap at twice the price of a gasoline silverado;-) And its warranted by a startup run by bob lutz. Now think of the savings.

It is a phev which makes more sense than a bev in a pick up truck, but it only has a 40 mile electric range. I would expect to pay less of a premium than that. I doubt there will be many takers.

 

But price wasn't the issue........clearly, VIA Motors has come up with an EREV pickup that can perform as good or better than any gasoline or diesel version.

My point is this: the technical capabilities are already here. The advances in battery performance, weight and price necessary for mass-market adoption are coming sooner rather than later.

That is when EV trucks will be competitive.
They've had 100+ years to figure out how to make the ICE better/cheaper.....and we're seeing signs of diminishing marginal returns.
The progress curve for EV/PHEVs is definitely steeper than that for ICEs, at the moment.

 

Supposedly they make sense for electric utilities because they can be setup to generate temporary electricity to a few houses while utility work gets done. PG&E was going to experiment with buying a few. It's clearly a speciality vehicle for now.

 

I'll agree that we are at a point that a phev pick up truck is viable. That via pos is not. The bmw i8 drivetrain could definitely power a awd truck, and its likely less expensive than via, but would require the ice to turn on for towing, and range would be poor. You could just put in a beefer motor in back and add batteries though. One of the big 4 truck vendors - Ford, GM, Chrysler, or Toyota would need to do it to get adopted though.

It makes sense for PG&E because they are playing CARB politics. Its part of the PR offensive for having high rates in the main line business, but makes them look greener from the political angle. Still its the crew that is expensive, so if these trucks last 8 years, that is only a $5K premium per truck per year, not much money for PG&E.

 

Another dreamer with a press photo of a concept vehicle.

I'll be waiting......

 

Akerson: GM will compete with Tesla

The above link also says Akerson is not convinced of the plug in technology.

From GM Volt forums

DBCassidy

 

I hope EVERYBODY competes with Tesla!
It doesn't have to be VHS versus Beta-max...or Edison versus Tesla.
I mean Nikola

We could be looking at more of a Droid versus Mac type of fight where the consumer gets to enjoy the advantages of lightning fast development and accelerated price reductions.
Let the geeks sneer at my S4 because it's not a "real" Mac......

EVs can be the same way

BUT (!!) as things sit right now, we're still going to see continued development with ICE technology which I do not at all find to be entering the realm of diminishing returns.
Snicker at Caddy all you want to, but is snobbery helping or hurting the EV concept?

YMMV!

 

This is getting a bit tiresome:
<SIGH>

READ:
VIA Motors

NOW ANSWER:

(1) When was last time you could pre-order a "concept vehicle" on a website?
(2) When was the last time you heard a price quoted ($79k) on a "concept vehicle"??

Please, go back and read some car blog posts circa 2007 or so.
All I have to do is substitute "Volt" or "Tesla Model S" in my post and the exact same naysayers were saying the exact same thing about those vehicles.
Didn't have to wait too long did they?
Now, whether or not one can afford this is a different argument. But I'm willing to bet money this is less than 3 years from showrooms.