Honda Accord Hybrid: 50 MPG City - clone Toyota

7 speed dual clutch? I hope it's now like the VW DSG. That is a durability nightmare...

 

This is like arguing why we should call specks on an apple "spots"... look, if it goes... has a specialized battery + motor unit, uses it to drive the it's a damn hybrid.

 

Lets hope Honda has learned that they can't treat the battery like a punching bag to eek out a couple extra MPGs for a couple years and then kill it like they have done with all their previous hybrids up until a year or two ago.

 

I hope not. The simplicity and beauty of the HSD is not something to be messed with.

 

Dumping all vehicles with that criteria into a single category is what spawned the definition need in the first place. Being that generic would be as constructive as bunching all combustion engine-only vehicles together, which we all know isn't appropriate.

The point was to highlight differences. The terms did indeed accomplish that.

 

From the article, it sounds like the CVT is what is in the non-hybrid Accord. A line before the one you quoted said it was mated to the 2.4L engine. I think they compared the efficiency to the hybrid CVTs because those were their most efficient ones to date. For the non-hybrids, a CVT might be Honda's only option in an automatic that can compete with the others 6+ speed step transmission. My understanding is that Honda's step transmission design gets too bulky over their current 5 speeds.

The dual clutch for the hybrids comes from Honda's press release.

Toyota's CVT will available in the new Corolla.

If it was a classic serial hybrid, there would be that 10-19% loss. The Accord hybrid has a battery to work with though. Using it as a buffer, the ICE doesn't have to run at inefficient engine speeds to produce electricity to match the traction motor's current consumption. It can run at that sweet spot on the bfsc chart, and store excess energy in the battery.

The serial hybrid mode is only used at city speeds. The speeds at which an ICE only car does worse. The serial path has losses, but that has to be compared to the ICE running at less efficient rpms if it were connected in a parallel mode. We are just going to have to wait on users reports. I just hope the pricing doesn't keep that number low.

Then how is this Accord hybrid not a full hybrid? It has two motors, allowing it to run as a serial hybrid. That is way beyond a mild or even assist hybrid. The ICE can also couple in to provide motive force to the drive train directly.

 

I was under the impression the split of ICE into electrical is 28% of torque rather than power. Am I wrong in thinking that as rpm increases but torque stays constant, the fraction of total power diverted to the motor decreases ?

 

Corolla's CVT with paddle shifters demo at 3 minutes into the video. Nice! First drive: 2014 Toyota Corolla - YouTube

 

I don't understand the problem.

What is the acceleration 0-60, 0-30, 50-70?
What is the mpg - each of epa's cycles, c&d 75 mph, consumer reports 65 mph. wayne gerdes if available.
What is the NVH - (engine off airconditioning?), engine off red light, etc
What is the price?

It really doesn't matter full or partial hybrid. The civic in my test drive failed to engine off at stops with air-conditioning. This causes engine idling reducing mpg and adding noise and vibration. We should not care which technology gets us here, but we can compare these metrics and make our individual assessment on what is important. I don't think there should be religious talk about full hybrid or hsd being "better" always. Its how they help on the metrics, and so far hsd has led at 200hp and bellow.

In the horse race for mid size hybrid sedan - camry leads on nvh, acceleration, and cost over fusion. Fusion leads on fun to drive (subjective), looks (subjective) and mpg (just not as much as epa seems to say) especially city (though camry may win on longer higher speed trips). Once the accord hybrid is out there we should see where it fits in the matrix. Just like people choose accord versus camry versus fusion. I expect this will grow the market, as people that like accords may choose the hybrid version, but may not wish to switch to toyota, ford, or hyundai.

 

Plug in your humor cap

 

in the near future, Hybrid is "just" another powertrain choice.... so if someone does it better than others, it will be like having nicer interior.

only question is how fast can these guys ramp up the production so their costs are not out of control... big difference with Toyota doing 1.5m to 2m per year and Ford doing 100k.

 

First off,
John1701a, thanks for the great info on your website. I have been reading it now for years.

Today Hybrid seems to mean anything with the Hybrid logo on it. I am surprised the auto makers did not hijack the name for use in their E85 vehicles or even NPG ones.

I do like the Wikipedia definition of Hybrid though..

A hybrid vehicle is a vehicle that uses two or more distinct power sources to move the vehicle.[2] The term most commonly refers to hybrid electric vehicles (HEVs), which combine an internal combustion engine and one or more electric motors. However other mechanisms to capture and utilize energy are included.

 

lol.
The accord hybrid seems just as much of a hybrid as the prius.

Toyota saying its fuel cell vehicle has a hybrid synergy drive seems a little silly, but maybe that is just me. Toyota does own the term.

 

Way back when, the purpose of defining hybrid types was overwhelmingly clear. Now, most people don't have a clue what the problems even were that those terms alleviated. The ultimate point was make people aware that all hybrids were not the same. Consumers today know that. Mission accomplished.

Focus has since shifted to other things, like HV efficiency and EV range.

 

Other than the terms in my post, what does hybrid mean to you?

The accord hybrid appears to have an EV mode, a declutched pure serial mode, a clutched parrellel/serial mode, and likely, and a pure direct drive ice to wheels without electricity mode. That sounds like more options than the prius, especially the gen I before electric air conditioning allowed it to run with engine off (a nice luxury mode that is important to those of us in the south). It seems to me that the accord can do all those hybridy things the prius does, in which case what matters is how well it does it. We won't know that until there are test drives. Honda has been in the hybrid game a long time, but has lagged significantly behind toyota. I doubt this fully catches up, but lets find out.

 

This will kick the Camry hybrid into the realm of "obsolete." Hopefully the designers at Toyota will make an increased effort to improve HSD when the G4 Prius is due.

 

You have never seen the car let alone had a drive; and you have no idea what it will cost -- yet you state with confidence the Camry is 'obsolete.'

Slow down, nellie

That said, I hope the Accord is a winner. H0nda has been sorely missed from the leaders of hybrid tech since the Insight I. And honestly, Honda may have to beat the Camry by a fair margin to convince people to take a chance on the car after their gaffes over the years in hybrids and traction battery longevity.