Honda Accord Hybrid: 50 MPG City - clone Toyota

Hope it's there and just did not see it. Is this Honda's IMA system or a new hybrid system? I'm really hoping for the latter and not the former.

 

gen II hycam is already here. did you miss it? my wife is at 47.8 mpg on the screen after 450 miles this tank. we'll see what accord real world numbers are.

 

I always figured that Honda's IMA would be a low cost hybrid alternative but it never turned out that way. It will be interesting to see if Honda can compete with Toyota on price with a full hybrid offering.

 

I like Honda, I've owned Hondas.
I really hope that the New Hybrid Accord lives up to the claims and becomes a great product.

But it seems to me that out of the gate, isn't the entire race.

One thing about Prius, Toyota and HSD, is it's the most proven full Hybrid system available.

I think the proof about the new Accord comes after it has been sold and owned in some numbers and after the system has been vetted by some real world existence and performance over a period of time. Not weeks, or months...but years.

Seems Honda has landed a potential blow, and gotten a good start out of the gate with this latest Hybrid attempt. But there is a lot of "new" in the description.

I have no reason to doubt Honda's claims as far as performance. But there are other factors that can only be determined with time. Such as reliability, and longevity of performance.

I'm in no way trashing Honda here. But I think I'd admit to enjoying the luxury of NOT being part of the first generation of owners.

I really hope Honda has gotten it right. But initial claims, real or unreal from Honda, are only the first wave of definition. Proof comes with time.

Honda is good at what they do. I'd be optimistic. But they held on to IMA way too long, and in my personal opinion the Insight was way too conservative and unprogressive a product to ever garner too much success. Seems like Honda has learned. How that lesson translates into product on the street and in peoples garages? Remains to be seen.

 

It's their new two motor Sport Hybrid system. Picture a serial hybrid car that can couple the genset ICE to the drive train at highway speeds.

IMA is dead, and will be replaced with the one motor Sport Hybrid system in the models with IMA now. It has a couple of clutches over IMA that allow a disconnect between the motor and ICE now. Honda is also dropping the CVT and going with a 6 speed double clutch transmission.

 

Bob, did they give details of the bsfc curve or best g/kwh (thermal efficiency)?

Combined mpg appears to be the same as ford fusion hybrid -47mpg, but ford used the derived test (2 cycle with math fudge factor). Numbers are not up yet on fueleconomy.gov, so I can't tell if its derived or actual 5 cycle testing. Camry Hybrid is actual. YMMV. Even if the new Accord "only" gets the real world mpg of the camry hybrid this is a great additional choice, and should grow the hybrid market share.

 

It is a eCVT, but not like Toyota's. There doesn't appear to be a PSD. Which would make it less mechanically complex.

Correction to the previous post; the transmission is a 7 speed not 6.

 

How can a 7 speed transmission possibly be less complex than a PSD ? Actually, how can anything be less complex than the Toyota HSD transmission ?

The added complexity and cost of two electric motors in the HSD is offset by the simple PSD. Stuffing a complex and expensive (and who knows if reliable) 6 or 7 gear transmission in instead of the PSD makes NO sense to me.

 

Props to Honda! Seems as that they have rectified their mistake in terms of hybrid production this time around. While I am infatuated with the 1st Gen. Insight, avid hypermilers are hardly thew average car market. Toyota has not just captured the compact/5-door market, but in some ways created a category all of it's own. My Prius rides as high as most cross over-suv's, yet is shorter... creating an 'unique' drive environment. The current Prius feels like a high-mpg car first that comes with a solid deal of utility. Hopefully Honda's new accord hybrid will capture the market wanting a solid comfy car first, that happens to also get high mpg.

I have never owned a Honda (only Toyota/Lexus), but hopefully this makes them squirm enough to further refine the future Prius.

1st we need a plug-in version with at least a 120 mile range on full EV...
Seriously though, as the car that defined fuel economy for the gas-burning US, it only seems appropriate for it to get an extensive electric treatment.

 

2014 Honda Accord Hybrid Japan Spec
Motortrend, August 05, 2013

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1308_2014_honda_accord_hybrid_japan_first_drive/

 

I'd like to think Honda was particularly careful about their mileage Ratings with the Ford debacle. Honda has a 50 city/45 highway/ 47 combined rating. Hardly anyone on earth achieves those numbers out of the Fusion Hybrid. Honda also has an all-new Fit and Fit Hybrid out.

If the Accord is priced competitively, it will sell very, very well. I already like the Accord better than any other family sedan, the hybrid version only makes it better.

 

It was from speculation in this thread, 2014 Honda Accord Hybrid Gets 49 MPG in City Driving | PriusChat on the diagrams on this page, http://www.honda.co.jp/ACCORD/webcatalog/performance/details01/
As far as I know, Honda hasn't released an English version of the page.

Honda has multiple hybrid systems coming out to replace their IMA. My comment about less complex was about one, and the 7 speed was concerning another.
Here's Honda's original press release, Honda Worldwide | November 13, 2012 "Honda Develops New Lightweight and Compact Hybrid System Named "SPORT HYBRID Intelligent Dual Clutch Drive""

The one motor one can be thought of has the direct descendent of IMA, and will used in the smaller hybrids to keep costs low. It is like Hyundai's system, in which the motor and ICE can be physically decoupled, which improves motor efficiency over the IMA. The system just adds a motor, and a transmission is still needed. With IMA, it was a manual or CVT. Honda is using a 7 speed dual clutch one with the new system.

There is a SH-AWD system that appears to be performance oriented for the Acuras. It appears to be the one motor system driving the front wheels, with two motors at the rear wheels.

The two motor system is their full hybrid, and what is used in the plug in and non-plug Accord hybrids. It appears to be a serial hybrid that can have the ICE couple in without a mechanical transmission between to directly. There is no PSD to blend the two motors and ICE together like in the HSD.

 

With the article stating the Accord uses the battery extensively I wonder what the durability will be of the pack?

 

Fueleconomy.gov only list a PlugIn Accord Hybrid and it is only getting 46 Combined, 47 City & 46 Hwy. Seems strange that a plugin would get less. I smell something Fordy, errr, fishy. Honda does not have a good track record with their previous Civic Hybrid numbers. Lets hope they can improve on correct numbers this time.

 

The definition of FULL requires a device to blend & split. Without that, it's partial... since it doesn't deliver the full range of abilities.

With the second motor and a clutch or two, it will obviously provide more than their ASSIST hybrids. Cost & Complexity is a concern though. It will be harder to be competitive with those extra burdens.

 

Where is this definition of full hybrid?
The ones I'm finding only state that a full hybrid is one that can propel itself under electric only. Without any differation on how it is done.
Full Hybrid: Overview
Hybrid vehicle drivetrain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Definition of Full Hybrid - What is a Full Hybrid
Tech Tuesdays India: Micro vs Mild vs Full Hybrid & Regenerative Braking

This is the only hit I got for partial hybrid in regards to the automobile. Seems to just be a synonym for mild hybrid. Which the new Accord is not.
Partial hybrids offer emissions compromise | News | The Engineer

 

Go back to the beginning, in the days of the classic model when the term was first coined.

Delivering electric-only drive at times was only one of many criteria. The system also needed to be able to both create & consume electricity at the same time, allowing for propulsion from engine & motor without the use of the battery-pack as well as being able to draw from it. In other words, there was no ability not delivered. It was every possible energy path was available... hence full.

In other words, it was a system that could seek out a very wide-array of efficiency opportunities.