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<<PLUGIN PRIUS MOD>>

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by horton the elder, Feb 16, 2006.

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  1. 1. $2000 with ECU flash upgrade and no proprietary battery control hardware?

    100.0%
  2. 2. $4000 with ECU flash upgrade and no proprietary battery control hardware?

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. 3. $8000 with proprietary battery control hardware?

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. 4. $8000 with ECU flash upgrade without proprietary battery control hardware?

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. horton the elder

    horton the elder New Member

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    What is the most you would spend and would a proprietary battery system be too annoying to have installed and have to deal with?
     
  2. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Horton, this is the third time you've posted this poll.....I'm deleting the others.
     
  3. horton the elder

    horton the elder New Member

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    no please don't just the duplicate one. This is all good stuff I need to know that is prius related.... I have to find out if there is a market for plugin mods if I am going to sell them.
     
  4. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    I'm leaving this one up, you posted this exact same poll 3 times, I deleted the other 2.
     
  5. horton the elder

    horton the elder New Member

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    I just wanted to hit the most populated forum with the polls to get the most responses....

    thanks :)
     
  6. maggieddd

    maggieddd Senior Member

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    CAPS are annoying
     
  7. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

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    IMHO, plug in mod creators are too greedy... they want far too much. If they truely have the price high because batteries are scarce then whats the point till they become more avaliable?

    Buyers have to be really careful unless its practicle. Technology moves so fast that if we spend 4+K we will most likely not realize the benifits. They are already speaking about technology such as "super caps" instead of batteries, another that is 3X more efficient than batteries "even lithium" is hydrolic energy storage.

    The best way for something to get off the ground is to do what Toyota has done and sell at a loss at first to get the product moving and popularity and trust started.

    Companies want instant profit!.. Restaurants go in the hole the first 5 years of operation....

    So many cool inventions got passed by something else because they got too greedy.

    Remember necessity is the mother of invention... until something gets on the market "even at a loss" someone else will meet that NEED.

    If they are smart, they will saturate the market with thier product with reasoanble prices.. But I don't think they will... they will wait too long and another technology will pass them by and they will miss the boat entirely if they are not careful!
     
  8. horton the elder

    horton the elder New Member

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    other people might be greedy, but I am far from it son.
    I don't plan on waiting around for a magic technology that is on the drawing board
    time is passing, nobody is doing a damn thing about energy consumption. You have your rhetorical demonstrations that accomplish absolutely nothing and equal your politicians who don't know squat about electronics or technology. Meanwhile everything is just all fine and dandy in the hopeful magic will save us land of america.
    I also think that GM's hrydrogen program is a joke. They spent millions before anyone has yet to come up with a way to cheaply split H2 from O. If water wasn't a compound and existed as h2 deposits great lets do it, but it doesn't. I don't see anything of any significance happening until the plugin movement starts. I am modifying my car first, without being a millionaire, at a target cost of 4-5 thousand with a hack job to the stock ECU. and a driving range of about 20 miles EV mode.
    I'll get this done and have something to show the customer.
     
  9. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Horton, chill out son...if you step back a little bit you'll see that Windstring is making some very good points. Your question indicates that you're going about this the wrong way.

    1)Develop your product, prove that it works with no ill side effects.
    2)Determine production cost (leave out R&D for now).
    3)Sell at or below cost to some prominant people in the community you wish to sell to.
    4)When proof of concept is achieved you can determine a selling price.

    You've stated almost nothing at all here about what your proposed product would do. Would speed be limited to 34mph? 41mph? Do you even know why I listed those two specific numbers?

    How would additional capacity be achieved? What about safety in a crash, how would it be cooled, is it a do-it-yourself install or would one need to be in a major metropolitan area that has a shop? What about warranty issues, are you aware that some early efforts at grid charged systems have led to the early demise of the OEM battery? How do you intend to regulate the SOC to permit a solid 150k+ battery life?

    I haven't even bothered to answer your poll despite deleting 2 of the duplicate polls and responding to this one 2 or 3 times now b/c the answers to those questions are critical.

    Instead of polls that will give you useless information why not start a single thread describing your project, projected date of completion, top speed and why how the ICE will integrate into your system, etc. Then solicit opinions and ideas from the folks here. I'm willing to bet that every one of your ideas has been addressed by the Prius+ group and Calcars already...and these guys have been working at this for over 2 years.
     
  10. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    Horton, i applaud your initiative, it is the way things get done. but couldnt ya squeeze 30 miles instead?? that extra 10 miles is critical
     
  11. Salsawonder

    Salsawonder New Member

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    Evan, Thank You for your words of wisdom.
     
  12. Begreen

    Begreen Member

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    Argh. Each time this poll reduces the distance one can cover on electric alone. I think it's pretty clear that the majority of people want the best coverage for average driving, aka commuting. That means somewhere about 50 miles at 50 mph. That I'll pay for. At 20 miles, I'll probably wait for a better option. - there isn't a button for that choice.
     
  13. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    studies show that nearly 67% of driving needs can be covered in that distance. this distance if doubled (charging ports at work) would make it nearly 90%. that is why the extra 10 miles is critical
     
  14. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

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    I went out of my way to not even mention GM as I see them as all about image and they are too good at selling lies.

    I"m pretty sure I'm not your son and I don't know why you are so defensive at mere issues?

    Why are you taking this personal? And why do you call yourself "elder"? If you are one thats ok, but its not worth bragging about nor does it earn you place or right to call anyone "son" as if you are superior in authority to me or anyone else?

    You know nothing about me, not my age, my income, my job nor my status at work, church or in the community. I hope your not one of those guys who is a legend in his own mind?

    If you want respect from me or anyone else, you'll need to do it the old fashioned way... earn it!...... I'll give you the benifit of a doubt to get you started, but you will have to earn the rest. Respect is always earned, never demanded.... Love can be unconditional, but respect and trust is not.... so please don't go around flashing your badge trying to "demand" respect on this forum by calling them "son".

    If you want to give me respect I will go out of my way to reciprocate... but I find it offensive when you attacked without provocation.

    But I do love an intense debate or conversation if your up for it, but I see not point in doing so just to ruffle your feathers. I honestly find no delight in that.... but I don't put up with wanna-be bigshots either.

    My accusation about greed is obviously pointed towards those who actually have the "power" to make decisions about price... the founders of the company that have to decide just how much of an investment are they willing to make to get thier company going? If your one of those, then yes you can take this personal..

    If they want "us" the customer to take all the risks and they want profit from day one, they are living a pipe dream that contradicts normal process for earning trust from the community and getting a company up and running.

    The secret to acceptance is to first to start a fire, and only then do you cook the food. If you try and cook the food before the fire is completely lit, the fire goes out.

    They need to count the cost and get the fire going and they won't be able to keep up with the demand of orders "similiar to the prius".

    But if you have truely posted 3 times now and have few takers... its not because no one wants it, its because at that expense people are going to second guess *how much its really worth it, and *how safe is it to the rest of the system and *how will it kill warranty and *jeapardize the 30K investment they have already made?

    No one would ever spend 30K on a prius if toyota hadn't already backed it up with their good name that gives us a warm and fuzzy feeling of trust because they have already earned that trust from thier good track record.

    To give serious money for the project you speak of must be backed by toyota, otherwise we are putting our warranties at jeopardy?

    If you get angry with that thinking, you will be a poor salesman as it tells me you don't give a damn about me and the customer.. only your own interest to make money at our expense... kinda like GM?.

    You must make it safe for us to buy that product. Few of us are rich enough to take a 30K prius and make a total toy out of it by buying modifications that are so extreme that toyota would laugh at us if we had a warranty issue for them to address?

    To do sales you need to get into "our" minds and needs not yours.

    Remember if you are going to have something to sell, you have to have something someone wants. A mod alone with nothing else would be insane to buy without more.

    It sounds like you have alot of issues. If this venture is going to be profitable, just based on the pent up anger and vile bitterness your spewing, If they want thier company to have a chance, I think they better get another boy.

    Sorry but thats my take... if you want to make a better impression than you have so far, your going to need a little manners... if you are indeed an elder, that doesn't say much for those underneath you? An elder is usually wise and considerate for those besides himself..... But I seem to get a different take?.... Have I misjudged you?

    Have you not yet figured out that all this time I took to respond to you was for your benifit and not mine?

    I'm really trying to be a nice guy in my own twisted little way! B)
     
  15. horton the elder

    horton the elder New Member

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    OH DEAR FIRST THE CAPS NOW THIS!!! LOL
     
  16. horton the elder

    horton the elder New Member

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    But this is exactly the kind of rhetoric that gets nothing done, All I want to know is whether or not there is a market out there for this stuff before I even waste my time trying and in the process get laughed and hollered at. Why is everyone going off on a tangent, this is about plugin mods not prominent figures in society etc rhetorical sillyness about caps lock lol, and maybe just bored people looking for a heated debate. I just need the figures that's all I mean.

    Thanks for the input
     
  17. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

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    Your the only one that keeps bringing the rhetoric in.... And I have responded rather negatively to most of it.

    Even after checking yourself you still persist in bringing it in again
    The only one that seems to want to talk about these items to distract from your subject is you? Why did you bring all that up in the first place?.. do you just enjoy venting of something, or do you want to market a product or talk and argue and vent about politics?..

    I'll tell you what... If you promise to just talk about your product without issues of politics, I too will attempt to explore the possibilities of a real solution we could benifit from.

    If you research the beginnings of my first posts when I joined the forum, I expressed how I would love a system as this, as did many others...but it has to be reasonable and not damage my little baby.
    I somehow feel you are asking questions that are already answered?... Are you wanting a signed check before you get serious?

    If you work up anything worth while I think you should know there is a market for it.. but if you make it so far out of reach that only a few can grasp it, you will never build the trust to sell even more at a lower price.

    What figures do you need Horton?
    Some silly piece of paper you can hand someone that means nothing?

    Your cake is not even half baked and your wanting to know who wants a piece?


    I think the people that can make this happen are not fools.. they know there is a market for it... you don't need questionaires to find that out.

    Your question is far too premature to get an honest answer. Like Evan said, you must provide a better look at the blueprints and expected outcomes and impact on the existing prius.

    The addition has to be a plus and not a question?

    This thread will not go much furthur till you can give more that someone can work with.

    And you are still being defensive. When you can take what I say and others say and appreciate the input as constructive help rather than a personal attack you will be ahead.

    We all want the same thing you know?.. A better more efficient prius?

    Why do you act like your the only noble soul trying to do something good and like everyone is against you and your cause?
    Does that help make you feel a bit more self righteous to create a world where you are the only one thats right? You must go to one of those churches that think the whole world is going to hell except your church?

    We are all in this together.

    I have spend 65000.00 in the last two weeks on two prius's with tax and license in the name of owning the best cutting edge quality rigs I could find and afford.

    As much as I am in love with the Idea of improving its abilities yet furthur, I will not jeapardize that investment with a commitment for a half baked pie that I don't even know if is poisoned yet?

    When you let some trusted role models demo them and give us the feedback... then you can post your polls again. If its any good, you better be ready for the orders...


    You make a good product and I'll be one of your strongest supporters.

    I think others can testify I get quite excited over good products that really work!

    But don't ask for everything and promise nothing. Until then the polls are a waste of time that doesn't even barely represent the obvious.
     
  18. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

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    Without a believable backstory and hard numbers and reassurance
    about the engineering, one CANNOT just pop off with a number.
    Period. Sorry.
    .
    _H*
     
  19. SomervillePrius

    SomervillePrius New Member

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    I'm not sure what you are trying to build but I'm willing to spend $4-6K on an EV mod that gives me 40 miles. This would cover my commute. That said I think calcars.org are looking at $12.000 for their Li-Ion technology module so I suspect that cost will be higher.

    I'd be interested in hearing what you are planning to do.
     
  20. gschoen

    gschoen Member

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    An Internet poll is a terrible place to do market research. As Evan said (in another post) they're fun but not terribly useful. A discussion of what you'd like to accomplish and how would be more insightful.

    To the person who wants 50miles @ 50MPH on EV onnly, likely you'll need to modify a different car. The Prius is limited on its EV only mode by the design of the Power Split Device making the engine turn at speeds over 42MPH. The electric motor doesn't have the HP alone to operate the car, so the plug in would need to use the ICE even if the battery is full, for acceleration and highway cruising.