Toyota working on improved Prius Plug-in as part of the next generation Prius platform

It's easy to jump to that conclusion, especially with the greenwashing effort pushing that very sentiment.

Looking closer though, you'll discover the current hybrid is a design under-utilized. Adding the capacity & power fulfills the affordable efficiency boost Toyota had set out to deliver all along... once battery density & cost finally dropped to a reasonable level... without having to change much beyond just the pack itself.

That planning ahead allows them to take advantage of economies-of-scale while also minimizing risk in a very uncertain market. It also provided a great opportunity to rollout the first model mid-cycle. They get to real-world prove implementation with the chance to upgrade sooner than any of the other automakers staring at the beginning of a cycle.

Think about all the different markets Toyota gets to gather data from, lots of it too. With a system already so well refined, does it even make sense to have the plug-in model profoundly different? Why not just switch priorities instead? Let the 4th generation grow plug demand to the point where the 5th can be offered with a plug standard and the choice of no-plug as an option.

The underlying effort is to shift purchases from traditional vehicles to hybrids. Doing that on the scale of millions per year within just 2 generations takes lots of planning ahead, delivering a design already prepped for future opportunities... even if it makes it appear to be a retrofit.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if someone at Toyota already had a plug-in option in mind while the Gen III was being designed.

 

it'll have wings by then.

 

Also, let's not forget how many consumers there are who simply never consider the purchase of a "first" vehicle. They just plain are not interested in something which could potentially lose value quickly or reveal itself to have problems. Take a look a Volt for a very recent example. MSRP for the 2014 model got reduced by $5,000. Just think what that did to resale value and the feeling it gave owners who just purchased one for a lot more.

With Toyota's rollout starting in just 15 states having strong interest in high-efficiency vehicles and not expanding to nationwide until a potential price-reduction, exposure was carefully limited. It's another example of planning ahead. They can establish the plug-in hybrid market with lower risk to reputation or disenchantment. Having started mid-cycle, it sets them up greater volume right away with the next generation.

The business of selling vehicles is extremely complicated. Lots of smaller improvements on a mature platform is very appealing to those who are unwilling to pay for much beyond the basics. That's the situation Toyota has now with Prius. It's a great balance for selling a large number of them. That win-win formula is how to reach middle-market, something antagonists expend a surprising amount of effort attempting to prove false.

Long story short, there's lots to look forward to from the next generation.

 

Toyota said they did.

Unfortuanately for them, they thought the market was in Japan and wanted small mpg boosts, instead of EV miles. They may have learned that customers wanted a bigger pack during the demo phase, but by then their was not room , available volume, for much more batteries. They now have much better data and as they have said, customers want more ev range.

 

That may be true, but by looking back at the fairly public history of the plug in I do not think that Toyota was actually planning on a gen 3 based plug in.

To me the first signal of this - think about the timeline. The gen 3 came out in 2009 as a 2010 model year car. They then announced and ran a fairly public test program for the plug in. That seemed pretty unprecedented to me and the public part of this seems like it was done to jump-start the program, helping Toyota push out the production version more quickly. Had it been planned my guess is the standard hybrid would have come first with an announced plug in a year or so later.

The second - think about the packaging of batteries in ev's, plug ins and hybrids. The companies have taken a great deal of care to package them unobtrusively - to different degrees of success. The standard Prius has the batteries under the rear seat, the Volt running down the middle of the car and the Leaf below the floor. The plug in Prius simply stuck them in the spare tire well. Not a bad choice in a pinch, but I think that Toyota would come up with a better solution had the car been designed to handle them from the get-go. The only other car that comes to mind with similar issues in battery packaging - the C-Max which is only a hybrid in the US, but was designed as a conventional gas powered car for other countries.

My guess is that Toyota did have a plug-in in mind, but not the Gen 3 but rather the Gen 4.

 

What should PIP ev range be to improve these sales numbers?
C-Max Energi (21); ytd 2,915
Prius Plug-In(11); ytd 5,031

Review: 2013 Ford C-MAX Energi Plug-In Hybrid (Video) | The Truth About Cars

 

^^^spare tire wells are becoming like cigarette lighters in cars...nobody uses for the original purpose but the form factor survives for other things (propane etc in EU).

 

You know its not just EV range....Toyota needs to grab a bigger chunk of the $7500 tax credit while it lasts.

PS - I would like to see 150k 10 yrs, and liberty and justice, for all on batt warranty.

 

Again with this funny business, Toyota said in their announcement that customers want more range, and the next generation should give them more range.
This years figures
July 2013 Dashboard - HybridCars.com

Tesla numbers should be corrected down according to their quarterly report. You can see the prius phv is far behind the leaf, volt, and tesla S. Toyota has gotten the feedback that people want more of an ev experience. Before the volt came out pundits here, edmunds, consumer reports, were claiming customers wanted an inexpensive car, and the prius phv would greatly outsell the volt. The volt is more than double prius phv sales in the US, the lead is higher in europe, if its not the electric miles, what do you think the reason is? The majority of customers are conquest, new to gm. The chevy name should be hurting sales all things being equal.

 

Your right. My bad. More Powerful electric motor

 

Other than the more than 40% thermal efficiency, no info about the ICE.

 

We can't guess the displacement but there are some hints from the technology Toyota has discussed. It seems rather certain that they will add direct injection, but not turbo charging. With turbo charging its likely they would be talking about more power and even higher peak efficiency,

Toyota overhauls engine plans - Autoweek

If they can get 38.5% peak efficiency out of the prius, and di will add 10%, you get over 40% peak efficiency. Size for a di hybrid engine would be bigger than 1.6 L according to Matsuda, so no going back to the 1.5L of gen II, it's cylinders too small for toyota's di system (or maybe a 3cylinder?). IMHO it is worth the extra money, ten thousand yen is only $102, for a more efficient engine.

 

- With DI you can add a little more compression, this means more power out of the same displacement. I think turbo is very unlikely.
- Wireless charging is very interesting thing if it would be build in the road, as Korean buses, when that comes ICE would be obsolete.
- If Prius switched to Li-ion I think it would cost roughly the same or very little difference if you build a 1kWh battery with high power density (26 kW = 26 C) or build a 4 kWh battery with lover power density (26kW = 6,5 C). Then just give every car a charging cable and use the subsides that are almost in all countries and you get a cheaper end product. You can call it mild plug-in if you like, it can be less EV capable then curent plug in. Then you make another model with bigger battery that would be more Volt like.

 

Not quite. Gen 3 was indeed planned to have a plug-in version.

Chronology:
2007 - Official tests with the plug started with the gen 2.
OEM Plug in Prius [Archive] - CleanMPG Forums
Aug 2009 - When gen 3 came out, HSD was redesigned to accomodate a more powerful EV mode .
Jan 2010 - 600 ZVW35 MY10 were produced to undertake real tests (many of us would have bought one as-is!), bringing consumer reports and acceptance feedback. No change in PSD (HSD core)...
Jan 2012 - PHV (ZVW35 MY12) started production (400 litres of cargo, only, 446 litres 3 gen HV)
May 2013 - 600 units ZVW35 MY10 dismantled

 

The fact that some popular traditional vehicles no longer come with a spare tire made Toyota's decision to not include one either an easy choice.

 

Looking back does indeed give that impression.

But if you were observing that history while it was unfolding, you'd know the plan was there but the market wasn't. The energy density and cost of lithium-based batteries was a major barrier. In fact, it still poses as a deterrent.

 

Indeed as I'm not seeing articles about suddenly more powerful lithium battery packs powering laptops or other personal, portable electronic equipment. The poly-pack cells made thin popular but nothing that suggests greater energy density in that market. Press releases, yes, but not product.

Bob Wilson

 

I just do not believe that Toyota had planned for the gen 3 to have a plug in version. I do not believe that the development would have been handled the way it was and I think that the end product would have turned out the way that it did if that was the case. People were talking about all the other car markers leapfrogging Toyota and how the Prius was becoming a bit dated. Of course it was something on their radar and of course the company was researching, prototyping and planning but I think that they were taken by surprise and rushed the current car to market in a reactionary move.