E85 fuel

In the US, I can't get E85 for 30% cheaper than E10, and since I am going to get at least 30% poorer fuel mileage, I am losing money if E85 is not 30% cheaper.

The Prius is not designed to run on E85 in the US.

If you do not have those stumbling blocks down under, go for it.

http://alternativefuels.about.com/od/ethanol/a/E85economydrop.htm

 

E15 is more of a political issue than a technical one. There's an upcoming mandate for that in Minnesota. Studies of E20 are helping to confirm that E15 won't be a big deal.

The point is millions upon millions of vehicles running E15 would have a profoundly larger impact than the vehicles capable of E85 which rarely (if ever) actually use it.

Running E85 in a stock Prius isn't good. You'll eventually trigger some sensor errors, since the system hasn't been calibrated to use it. E15 would be fine though.
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Let us know how ur Prius likes it.

 

You will definitely get lean burn DTCs if you run E85. I think your only option is to get a higher volume injector. I am not aware of any way to modify the ECM to increase injector pulse length.

 

Drew, where are you getting e85 from in Sydney? know of anywhere near the Hills that sells it?

 

What was your before and after LT fuel trim? What are the RONs of the gas and the E85? Is the E85 RON higher than the highest premium gas in Australia? We have had reports here of people that need to run 89 or 91 AKI (93 - 95 RON) to avoid knock in high mileage engines (100,000+ miles)

Anyway, it is rare to see tuners here, so please do keep us updated on your progress! Given that E85 has 75% of the energy density by volume compared to gas, you will run into a problem eventually. I think your custom E50 blend will work, however -- and you should see your fuel trim running significantly positive at that point. That would be a good time to put in the next size up injectors. Ideally, you have an injector that runs somewhat positive LT trim with E85 and somewhat negative LT trim on gas but still falls with +/- 20% to avoid rich or lean DTCs. Beyond that, you're looking at electronic modification.

 

majority of US have mandatory 10% in our regular; and in some midwest stations which also sell E85 it is more like 20-30%, cheaters

I remember reading a few years back (~2005-6) Toyota tested several models (primarily Camry) and found no problems. At 20% they experienced ~3% MPG drop, perhaps due to less energy content.

 

Hey, i am Chris from Germany and i have done 1875 km on E85. What brings me to an acceptable 39.2 MPG rating. I am using an E85 conversion kit.

Using E85 i am acutally saving 1,20 € per 100km.

Regular Gas: 1,60/litre
Ethanol: 1,12/litre

 

Interesting and welcome. That would be about $7.80/gal for gasoline and $5.50/gal for E85. Presumably the tax policy accounts for part of the cost difference. What is the source of the ethanol? Import or made in Germany?

 

DO it! They had to with the Hydrogen Prius because the power output was lowered so much...turbo brought it back almost to where it should have been running on 87.

 

You have any experience doing so? Only documentation of this was done on the G1 during a turbo install. Ran into all sorts of issues...but it WAS possible with success.

 

^^^note this is really old thread we just tacked onto

 

Yes, I'm awfully good/bad at reviving old threads...just this time it wasn't me.

 

The fuel ist made in Germany from corn, potatoes or sugar beets. And yes, it's the tax that's making all the difference. You can image why nobody is driving an F150 or a Tundra here. You are getting poor by starting the engine. So don't worry about your gas prices.

I have some pictures from the installation of the so called "ecobox E85" (about $220).

Ground for the box and my Daytime running light:



Fuel Injectors:



Throttle damper:



The box has a sensor that monitors the temperature. If the engine is to cold (e.g. cold winter), it enriches the fuel automatically as much as you have set before (e.g. 40%). The sensor is installed between the water pump and the engine with aluminium foil.



You can deactivate the box with the little switch on the left. If you are using Regular Gas.






The box. Now i have fixed it better.



And the software (in german):

You can set:

Enrichment during engine start under 57 degrees. I have set 60%

Enrichment during engine warmup. I have acutally set 35% for 2 minutes. The engine must be colder than 75 degrees.

And finally enrichment while the engine is running. I have acutally set 30%.

While driving about 75 mph straight i have an LTF of 4.5. While climbing hills on the motorway or going 100mph, it can go up to 8 - 11.

 

I run the same box here in Germany about 10000 miles now, runs fine winter (freezing temps, snow etc.) and summer (+37°C so far). Milage drops by 265 (winter) to 30% (summer) depending on the seasonal blend. In winter, e85 in northern Europe only contains 65% Ethanol to help cold starting according to the fuel norm.
With the above shown enrichment, the are no starting problems. It sounds pretty much like with petrol, just a tad muter. In winter, your car's tail pipe may smell from cheap booze for the first minute.

The car runs nice and strong. Drove up a reasonably steep long hill last week with an indicated 180km/h w/ cruise control on the Autobahn and the battery was continued to be charged.
You do only need some 80% of throttle to maintain top speed right below speed limiter. My car indicated 181 or 182km/h on the limiter.

Without a piggy back, you are restricted to about 70% Ethanol in summer and about 40% winter before the ECU throws a code. With the piggy back ECU you can run straight e85 throughout the year.

If you run low on e85, just fill it up with normal petrol and flip a switch to deactivate the piggy back ECU.
Next time you refill with e85, flip the switch back and off you go. Open hood, flip switch, check oil and refill wiper fluid as your are there anyhow, close hood, go.
As long as you do not add more than about a quarter of petrol to the e85, you can leave the piggy back activated.
The Prius will adapt in short oder. This way you may add some 5-10 liter of petrol to half a tank of e85 to get you to your next e85-station.

Marko