Plug in Prius - Most Environmentally Friendly Vehicle in Study

62mph in the city? Probably in a 40 mph zone.

 

The report is very informative and in-line with other studies on the subject of global warming.
To me, it reaffirms my perception that the PPI is most balanced-built car in many aspects including global warming aspect.

 

The one I'm particularly interested in is the Hummer. Yes, I know it's gone from the scene with the GM bailout. I still remember the analysis done proving the Prius was less environmentally friendly than the Hummer. Of course this pseudo scientific analysis was done by a marketing company. Honest marketing? An oxymoron if I ever heard one.

 

Thank you for posting the data. Interesting and informative.

DBCassidy

 

Funny you should mention that 'study'.
As I recall, one of the huge holes (of which there were lots) and big criticisms of the paper was the very short lifespan assumption they made for the Prius.

While in this paper, at least they used the same lifespan for all vehicles, I am still very disappointed in their focus on a 50,000 mile lifespan and occasional use of a 100,000 mile lifespan.

As rightfully noted in the study, the further you can drive without needing to replace the batteries, the better electrics do in comparison.

The flat assumption of 50/50 EV/HV driving is also a weakness of this study IMO. I do understand why they used it, but it makes transferring the results to individual driving troubling at best.

I am also uncertain how reliable their methodology is in terms of simply scaling up, or down, the CO2 footprint of manufacturing the electric motor based on horsepower.
This may be accurate, but seeing how the mass of an electric motor varies with HP would help 'connect the dots' to see how valid that is.

I did like the improvement shown from 2010 to 2012. It is a nice reminder that EVs and PHEVs already on the road get cleaner as the grid does. My assumption is gas is getting dirtier over the same time, but they didn't mention the change. Ill see if I can find it in their previous paper.

To everyone looking at the changes in their state's grid power. Keep in mind they made the assumption that all power produced in a state is used by that state.
This makes some states (Minnesota is one I suspect) appear cleaner than it really is. It most likely makes others appear dirtier than it really is.

I understand why they made this assumption. I just wish they could have looked at grid use rather than grid production.

One big omission in the report that I would have liked to see, is what percentage of the population lives in those groups of states they identify.

Overall, better than most reports I have seen and very up to date.
It is a very difficult analysis with a whole lot of moving parts to it.

 

I too think 50k miles is too short but it is a useful data point.

I think 100k miles is when Leaf battery warranty expires. 150k miles would be a great data point to have also.

 

I better not let my PiP find all this out, it may start emitting smug.

 

Here, city speed is 25-30 mph. Even highway limit is 55 mph but ppl drive 65-70 mph.

 

Obviously the Prius and Prius Plug-in do a great job with respect to CO2 emissions. I don't believe a calculation that makes a few percent change in those estimations would have any effect on what car I purchase. And probably not on what others purchase. Its how the features of the car fit your driving needs that count. The report gives an excellent overview of the environmental impact.

 

A nice addition would have been extrapolating to the future:
What will be the top 5 cars in each state in, say, 2015 (within the cars on the market today and with the assumption of an improvement at the same rate).

 

....good point...we are in the heat of a mud-slingging VA Governor election, and one candidate mentioned VA imports a lot of elec, which was news to me.

But even if I take the study data, he shows VA reducing coal from 35% to 20% (vs. 45% EPA 2009). Delaware went from 45% coal to 17% in just 2 yrs. Again this (at least in VA) coal reduction is happening with no apparent effort to reduce coal.

Need to learn more, but one implication is there is flexibility in the system to shift between nat gas/coal without capital investment. Weather also factors in I guess if the winter in warm and the summer is cool then the utilities can avoid coal. The implication is just taking one year is shaky. Last year 2012 when coal was going down, some references said coal was expecting to bounce back in 2013 for logistics reasons, but it's been such a cool summer here, not sure.

Another implication is we have an environmental group here, Chesapeake Climate Action Network, who helped us on the hybrid fee petitions. They are really aggressively in the faces of VA senators, politicians etc for being not-green-enough. One would think if the VA politicians could point to getting down to 20% coal, that would be good defense.

 

LOL... You folks do realize that if the report contained all the suggested "improvements" it would be 2085 pages long and totally useless to compare one car with another or one state to another.

I think it is a concise, and well written report that compares Apples and Apples, Oranges with Oranges, and Priuses with other cars.... just my 2¢.

As for me I make my own electricity so I can say it is totally green for me to use EV. It isn't of course because, as has pointed out by some anti environment friends of mine, that there is pollution in the making of the panels on the roof so I should just drive a gas guzzler and be done with it. I also have a 100% green plan from my ESSCO (which means other people have to claim a higher % of coal in their electricity even though we all get the same power...) Remember, figures don't lie, although liars can figure! So... any way you figure it the PiP is at the top or very close to the top of the list of "green" cars out there!

 

Ya, can't go wrong with either choice.

PiP shifts away from gasoline without hurting the Prius attributes. It will be just as low in emission, practical midsize with ample cargo space with hatchback utility.

If you get 50/50 EV ratio over 150k miles lifetime, you'll use 1,500 gallons less. That saving is more than worth the $2,500 federal tax credit as it would likely cost US more to import. It is a win-win-win for consumer, government and Toyota. The biggest winner is probably the mother earth.

 

There is the study and there is the meaning of the study. Those are two different things.

The study shows the Prius family is the best car(s) for emissions.....right now. (I would agree with that)

What does this study mean?

A. To some it means buy a Prius if buying a car for GHG impact....today.
B. To me it means we have to focus on getting the grid cleaner if we want real improvements in future sustainability.

 

I agree and they are not mutually exclusive.

You can reduce carbon footprint CO2 (GHG) while the grid gets cleaner. PiP is the only plugin hybrid that does not increase carbon footprint now, with the current grid mix. If the future grid gets cleaner, so will PiP. That, in a midsize package with the same utility that Prius provides.

Leaf may beat PiP in the future but just slightly/barely. PiP will continue to have the refueling speed and the driving range advantage.

 

Or, it could be the Volt did not do so well.

DBCassidy

 

I am having trouble connecting this to either the post you quoted or indeed to the thread as a whole, can you flesh out what you are meaning to say?

I am no great fan of the Volt or especially GM's introduction of the Volt, but this report simplifies in a number of ways that hurt the Volt:

It assumes the 11 mile range of the Prius PHV and the 38 mile range of the Volt both result in a 50% electric range, 50% gas range. This seems wildly unlikely to me.

The Volt also can go faster in electric mode than the Prius PHV, so there are more opportunities to be in electric mode in a Volt, even beyond its greater range.

(I think the authors were overpowered by complexity and simplified, I do not suspect evil intent in either their 50/50 assumption nor their lack of mention of the Prius c. Since I use my car as a cargo hauler, I have never considered owning a Volt.)

 

Emissions of the Volt vs Prius (Prius is lower than the Volts 50k / 100k mile).

Charts 7 & 8 (1st thru 5th rankings) - the Volt did not make any of the top five in any of the states.

I would have expected the Volt to make it into the top five.

So, the Volt can go faster in EV mode than the Prius, good for the Volt. However, this increased acceleration doesn't amount to much when the daily commute involves more stop and go driving.

This, IMHO, the Prius HSD out does the Volt.

DBCassidy

 

Using the report to rank cars is missing the point. If someone did not realize the Prius is one of the cleanest gas cars available until reading this report, then they have been in a cave for a decade. If you are in a position to use a lot of EV miles on a PiP, that would be great in quite a few states.

The major point is how the improvements in grid cleanliness have gotten very close to where using EV miles is just as clean as Prius gas miles in many places.

 

Its "wildly" accurate for me. It depends on how you use the car. I've had my PiP for 5 months, driven 4000 miles and my measured EV is 54%. Most of my local driving is on EV. The EV % would be much higher if I hadn't gone on 8 out of town trips totaling about 1800 miles.