Tesla to Produce 'Affordable EV' by 2016

Ok, first link, dug through the opinion piece and found this on SpaceX.

So here they equate 'using technologies entirely subsidized by taxpayers' to subsidizing the company?
Tesla CEO Elon Musk Is Wrong About Government Subsidies | New Republic

Here is a list of some tech spin offs that came from NASA NASA spin-off technologies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And then they equate getting a government contract for services as the government subsidizing SpaceX?

Between these to positions, they are stretching the definition to be so broad the term becomes meaningless as everybody is being subsidized by their definition.

So is does the opinion in that first link also reflect your belief?

 

I guess just about every American home is government subsidized by the mortgage interest deduction.

 

And Goodyear, and any eyeglass companies that use the NASA scratch resistance tech and...

 

Is Musk into that, too?

Keep digging. You'll strike even bigger subsidies... however reluctantly you define them.

 

So you do call those subsidies?

Ok, then Musk is a lightweight.
There are companies that make far more money on similar 'subsidies'.

 

More a case of his being an expert at harvesting subsidy. I guess there is a place for that.

 

2013 Teslive Event - Published on Jul 28, 2013
Tesla Motors CEO and Product Architect Elon Musk speaks at Teslive 2013 in Northern California. This town hall was an opportunity for Tesla owners and enthusiasts to ask questions, share ideas and get firsthand information about the company.

Tesla Model S gets new options, price increase on things like XM Radio

 

Society needs more forward thinkers like Musk. He is one person who can improve the battery technology for us all. Musk has a very good team and share his vision for EV products blending in with consumers.

So what if he is "harvesting subsidy", Musk has put that money to good use - a great product Model S and is profitable. He paid off the money borrowed early.

Sounds like a very sound business plan to me.

Also, MOST importantly, he stays in touch and communicates directly with his customer base.

DBCassidy

 

Let's come back in three years and see what has happened to subsidies and $TSLA (and the rest of the $MUSK portofolio). Via the "afffordable by 2016" he basically admits the "S" is not "affordable" at retail (no manufacturer or purchaser subsidies).

 

Huh, Musk has said the oposite, that the Tesla S will work fine after the credits run out. Its not affordable as in it costs twice as much as the average car. Its a performance car. The BMW M3 and M5 are not affordable in the same way.

In 3 years Tesla will still be getting subsidies, as will toyota, bmw, etc.

 

Unfair comment! harvesting subsidy maybe other compliance vehicles available only for lease, but Tesla produces a real car, now shipping 3rd quarter in EU, 4th quarter in Asia.

 

Good luck with demand and selling at retail; and, no, the subsidies will expire. Tea Partiers will be sure of that.

Quite fair. Find a new line of "no subsidy" rationales and excuses. Niche markets outside the 48 states.

 

I don't understand. The tea party has not cut one auto company subsidy. They haven't even helped chu fight to lower the subsidies on hydrogen. What makes you think they will eliminate this tiny one, hundreds of millions a year, and not cut a dollar of the tens of billions of dollars in agricultural and oil subsidies.

Why wouldn't telsa be able to sell? Ferrari is able to sell a much more expensive car, lamborghini, they all are looking to electrify. I think you just hate bevs.

Why not talk about cutting the big subsidies, that keep the wasteful companies in business? Did Musk bite your dog or something? These subsidies were put in place for toyota and gm. Are you mad others can get them too?

 

How many cars do Ferrari and Lambo sell in in North America - combined? How many EVs will they sell? At what price point? Like the Porsche 918? $850k? Dream on.

Have to laugh out loud at the likes of "@TeslaRoadTrip" who blather on about their shiny toys, who have to go out of their way to find a "Supercharger Station" the hope it is unoccupied, then spend a half a day "topping up" to go "170 miles reliably (30 mile buffer)". "Only 2 cents per mile" they crow, if you don't factor the capex of their lead sled and the half a day of their time to "prep" every time they want to drive 150+ miles. Talk about irrational and fanatical idiots.

 

Air_Boss,

I only take it that you are a tea party fan of Mike Kelly. That you wish to subsidize oil, and use histerical arguments against plug-ins because you really deep down like OPEC and idiot polliticians than want to solve any problems.


Do you really think Mr. Kelly will get any support to kill the credits, and boost oil subsidies? He may, but that will be a sad day for america. I don't think it will happen. I know you want it too, which just is a little sad also. Do you just hate american innovation?

On a 60 kwh vehicle, batteries are subsidized by $125/kwh. The DOE expects prices to fall $200/kwh by 2020. That means Once Tesla's tax credits run out, batteries will have likely dropped nearly as much as the tax credit. Its called innovation. People thought there was no way tesla could pull off the S. They were wrong. Say the price of batteries only drops $50/kwh when the credits end, that means that consumers might have to pay 7.5% more for the 60kwh car, or tesla would need to eat that and lower the price.

 

Fewer than Tesla sells

Needless ad Hominen attacks, exaggerations, and use of negative descriptors.
If your position is so weak you can't form a logical argument perhaps you should reexamine your position?

 

The irrational facts of a Tesla fanboi existence are tough to refute, aren't they? Get a clue. It's an albatross in pretty feathers.

Not even close. In all respects.

 

Spoken by someone trapped in a Prius V Wagon

 

Tea Partiers? You can't be serious.

DBCassidy

 

Well then what is it that irritates you so much.

The business case for tesla is easy to see, with or without tax credits.

People like fast cars, people don't like high gas prices even when they are rich. The price of batteries is going down down down. The shame of driving a guzzler is beginning to change the habits of those buying fast cars. Perfect place for a change. Really when the credits are less than 8% of the cost of a high margin car, losing them won't ruin profitability.

Then we have the investors, keirisu effect. Panasonic invested in Tesla, and Tesla is a key part of its lithium business, it is important for them to drive down prices as tesla can switch suppliers. Mercedes and Toyota have used tesla both for design work and as a parts supplier. If their fuel cell cars don't take off, it is likely they use tesla more. This is very much like the porsche design wing of porsche, and its highly profitable. What is more is their investment in tesla has gone up so much in value that stock profits have exceeded R&D spending. The Mercedes investment/contract was key to helping tesla survive to this point. Now with battery prices going down, and Mercedes about to release the car next year, tesla should make more money off the relationship.

Now that you understand you aren't going to kill tesla by killing the tax credits, what is it. Mike Kelly is the only tea partier I know that still wants to kill the credits. He wants them dead because he wants the country to stay dependant on foreign oil. Since you are chear leading for this, and identified the tea party as what would kill them (last I checked they were having another vote to kill much more expensive obama care and voting for agricultural subsidies but wanting to cut food stamps) I assume you are part of the Mike Kelly branch of the tea party. I know a lot of pro-oil types here in texas, but they are rational, and don't even want to talk about killing plug-in tax credits.