Is GM worried about Tesla?

Are you referring to Japan in 1997 when the Prius was introduced for general sale or North America in 2000 when the Prius was introduced here?

Of course, it was no problem for Toyota to share details of the car with you in 2000 since it had already been on sale to the public for 3 years.

How many people other than you did Toyota reach out to back then? You set up your awesome website and were active on the Yahoo Prius group(s?), as I recall. My only source of information was a few Prius web pages that Toyota set up, the yahoo group and searching for information about the earlier Japanese variant and the few media articles about it.

I ordered one at the first online opportunity to make a reservation and got my car within a few days of yours. I don't recall any invitations or opportunities to meet any engineers or executives from Toyota.

On the other hand, I was invited along with other (the first 100?) Volt owners to attend Detroit's annual automotive street celebration. The Volt owners who attended received special presentations by GM Volt engineers and met with Bob Lutz and other executives. I was unable to go at the time.

I did attend a SF Bay Area Volt owners meetup organized by the west coast GM marketing executive for electrified vehicles and had plenty of opportunity to speak with him.

Update: I should also add that I attended an open public meetup at GM's advanced powertrain R&D center in Torrance, CA on December 4, 2010 shortly before the first cars were delivered. They gave us full tours through their facility and also a detailed PowerPoint presentation on the Volt's powertrain and battery design that had earlier been given to the automotive magazines as a background briefing for their cover articles on the Volt. The media version of those presentations are on YouTube now.

In researching the exact date of the Torrance meetup, I was reminded of the Volt Customer Advisory Board (CAB). About 15 people including former (pissed-off) EV-1 owners, EV activists, and science advocates were selected to drive pre-production Volts and give GM feedback and help educate potential owners about the car. Members included Chelsea Sexton and Bill Nye (that TV science guy). Unfortunately (or fortunately, as the case may be), their old Volt CAB website is now advertising online Indian porn. Instead, here's an AutoBlog article about the CAB:

Chevy Volt's first customers will be 15-person Customer Advisory Board - Autoblog

Obviously, the 2nd generation Volt hasn't been formally announced much less rolled-out so comparisons to the introduction of the Iconic Prius 6 years after the first Prius are a bit premature after the 3rd year after the Volt first went on sale.

Now you are back to harshing on the Volt again... . I thought you earlier disavowed implications that you were calling for a reduction in Volt's basic architecture target and insisted that you were calling for a new and additional lower-priced hybrid model? Or is the Volt irrelevant to your discussion about price and you mentioned it because .... I don't know. The only way to substantially reduce the price of the first generation model would have been to aim lower and put out an Energi-like non-EREV.

I think some kind of informal on-going customer feedback council would be a good idea. Does Toyota have such a group? All I've heard about was a one-time invitation to a few active PriusChat forum members to attend a roll-out event.

And yet you were just remarking positively recently on the success of the Tesla Model S even though it isn't "mainstream", is "too powerful" and has "too big" of a battery pack according to your oft-repeated recommendations for success.

 

What about Kia? or Hyundai?

 

For some perspective, take a look at the big GM forum. While those here have been persistently pointing out reasons for being patient and waiting, members there have moved on. Volt simply doesn't get attention anymore. The daily blog has gone the same way. Discussions are now about other topics.

Other plug-in choices, like Tesla, are stirring far more interest... and are demonstrating the potential for sustained profitable sales. Transforming engineering success to business success isn't going well for GM. The pressure of economic realities are forcing choices to be made.

What the outcome will be is anyone's guess. The one thing we know for sure is that the market is rapidly expanding and the clock is ticking. When the tax-credits expire, each plug-in must be able to support itself... competing directly with traditional vehicles.

 

It amazed me how the backers just plain didn't want to deal with the issue at hand. They kept focusing on the next generation without any concern for the piling up of inventory. Now here comes the 2014 with plenty of 2013 still on dealer's lots. It's a mess. How do you price to clear out without impacting the new ones?

Again, GM is competing with itself. The situation was bad enough with Malibu & Cruze competing for the same consumers. Now, they've got old & new Volt doing it too. Ugh.

 

Not really. The new 2014 MSRP simply matches the latest $5,000 cash incentives in the existing 2013 inventory. It's a smooth price transition as basic pricing economics would dictate.

I'm sure GM is grateful for your concern.

 

Priuschat is an inclusive place. If you do not feel that way, then petition Danny to remove all the Other Car forums.

DrInnovation and other Volt owners came here to share experiences and data on their rides. They aren't trolls just talking trash and spreading hybrid FUD. They did counter misconceptions on the Volt, which could lead to heated debate.

The GM haters need to get over the fact that the Volt is not a complete flop, and that it is a more compelling car to the public than the Prius plug in. Yes, sales aren't as high as some GM exec with a month bigger than their brain said, but the plug in market is growing in the same pattern as the early hybrid market did. The Volt and Leaf are two of the major players in that market.

The Tesla S is the other one. It has done well. Taking reservations years before its release helped, and skews the sales figures when comparing to the others. At this point in time, I think all the established auto manufacturers are worried about Tesla. The S out sold the other luxury cars at its price point. GM likely pulled back on the ELR production because of its success. It isn't a direct competitor to the Volt though. The S with the 'small' battery is now twice as much as the Volt. After those three, the best selling PHV or BEV are only selling at half their numbers.

The Volt is doing well enough that we will see a second generation of it. As to its defined market, it's a car. What is the Leaf's target market, or the Beetle's, or the Golf's, or the original Prius'? Why do we have a slew of minivans, SUVs, and crossovers that all do the same thing? Because people like choice.

It's hard pinning down the Volt's market because it is the first car to market that drives like an EV, but carries its own range extender. The Prius sold, despite what was viewed as short comings by buyers, because it was the only highly fuel efficient car that could work for a family. It didn't get to that point until its second generation.

 

If you haven't seen it yet, here is Elon's reaction to a question on BMW i3 during the earnings call on Wednesday. Tesla's market cap has reached 1/3 of BMW's market cap post-earning. I think GM is rightfully concerned.

 

They did get over it. That's old news. Comments have since changed to it needing to be affordable.

Back when Volt was rolled out, the cost for the battery was between $800 and $1,000 per kWh, not including controllers or liquid cooling. That puts the price of 16 kWh of capacity at a very minimum of $12,000. Cost has since come down by then. How much? That's a big unknown. Half would be remarkable. Volt is a hybrid with clutches. Adding the battery-pack makes it a costly product. 3 years isn't much time for a significant reduction.

But consider that actually happening. The plug-in Prius only uses 4.4 kWh and doesn't use liquid cooling. Cost of lithium batteries dropping will benefit it too... making it compelling by becoming affordable, the very thing people have been asking for.

Mainstream consumers are looking for a plug-in option that doesn't require paying a large premium. That's why GM set their "nicely under $30,000" target. That's why Toyota set their $3,000 to $5,000 package-option target.

What part of that doesn't make sense from what we are seeing now?

 

I think the American Tax payer is scared of GM. GM stock would have to reach $175 a share to break even on the TARP bailout. The stock closed at $36.66

Feds sell $1.2 billion of GM stock, stake dwindles