Short Trip Myth

Hi Dan,

In real life, 'a Prius is not for everyone:'

You are looking for an excuse to sell your 2012 Prius and get something else and I agree. Over the years we have seen "buyer's remorse" from folks who for whatever reason(s) never really enjoyed the car. Worse, their unhappiness leads to a posting attitude, a 'knock this chip off my shoulder' like the "Short Trip Myth."

You won't be happy until you sell the car (or the lease runs out) and get something else. In the meanwhile, we can only expect more wasted attempts to make others unhappy. You are seeking allies to justify your angst, a pattern we've seen many times in the past.

Thanks to "Ignore User" we can turn up the squelch and tune you out. You are free to post nonsense just as we are free to ignore it.

Bob Wilson

 

I'm making a lot of short trips these days (4-7 miles each way), with some hills, using A/C. It has a bigger effect on milage than I would have thought--down to about 40.
I do realize I'm using less gas overall than on my regular 35 mile each way commute, where the mileage gets up to 47 or so on average, even with A/C.

 

I kind of see where the OP is coming from, but this thread is still one of the most retarded ones I've seen here.

 

A pretty common situation is someone who takes an alternate route to increase their mileage but takes a longer distance to do so.

I'm fortunate in that my slower (higher fuel mileage) routes tend to be shorter in distance as well.

 

So do I but it has nothing to do with improving Prius performance. He 'let the cat out of the bag' and by his own words, hates his ride which he is powerless to change.

For now, he is trying to recruit others to follow his Prius angst. "Ignore user" leaves him alone to mutter nonsense to himself until his 'lease' runs out and/or he gets his next car. You know free speech does not mean mandatory listening:

• "If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet." - Matthew 10:14
• "If people do not welcome you, leave their town and shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them." - Luke 9:5
• "And if any place will not welcome you or listen to you, leave that place and shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them." - Mark 6:11

Soon enough, he'll get bored and wander off . . . faster the more often he sees "<ploink>". So I choose to shun him until he reforms or wanders off. In preschool, it is called giving him "a timeout."

I still see notices from those who add to this thread and read their notes. As for the OP, the PriusChat software does an excellent job of filtering him out.

Bob Wilson

 

You got the car that suits your need. I got mine that suits mine.

About half of my miles are from short and frequent trips (2-4 miles). I don't use gasoline in the weekdays. A regular Prius would not get the rated 50 MPG for such short trips. Before I could plug mine in, I used only gas for my usual short trip and got 46 MPG if I recall. So there is short trip penalty and there is no denying it.

So far, I am averaging 55 MPG on gas miles and 132 MPGe on electric miles. There are other owners more efficient than me. The flexibility of using either gas or electricity has boosted my overall gas MPG (on gas miles). It has also boosted my electricity efficiency by weeding out high speed driving to the gas engine. There is a lot more "value add" than the 11 electric mile. PiP is very under-rated.

Personally, I prefer a car that shifts energy sources (electricity and gas). Electricity is great for short trips in city driving. Gas is great for long trips near constant speed on highway. I use both where I see them fit. PiP has cut my gas consumption by half.

I had 164,000 miles under my belt with Gen2 Prius. I did almost all of the maintenance myself. The only time I took it to the dealership was to do the free SSCs and one transaxle fluid replacement which I could have done in any local shop or even myself. I spent $0 on the repair, only on normal wear items (tires and shocks). Ownership experience was great, my brother is enjoying it now (at 180k miles). He still has the original brake pads.

 

Of course, you cannot get the "extended distance" without taking the initial "short trip" penalty. The definition of long trip includes the initial short trip.

There is a way to keep MPG high even if you have a lot of short trips (see my previous post) and further cut down on gas usage. That's what PiP is for.

 

For the record I'd just like to note that realistically that Jeep, at least a Jeep JK 2007-2013 is typically not going to get 20mpg around town. I traded a JK Wrangler in for my Prius and I consistently would get at best 15-16mpg around town.

Check Fuelly: 8 out of 56 vehicles got 20+ or above. The rest all were below, and that is if you are stock. bigger tires, lift kit, top down, your mpg will drop. Go above 50mph and your mpg will tank.

Driving the same routes now I get 55-57mpg for the same local driving. Sure.... I can buy an expensive Jeep and spend 30+k on it, and drive it just 20 miles a week and stay green in comparison to someone who buys a Prius and drives 200 miles a week.... But then why in the world would I buy a Jeep that I never drive? That is one hell of an expensive lawn ornament.

 

That's a great point you brought up. Prius recycles the exhaust heat in order to warm up the engine quicker than a regular gas car like the Jeep. Prius already has technology to minimize the short trip penalty.

PiP just takes it to the next level by retaining the 50 MPG gas operation while keeping the cargo floor flat. There is no other plugin on the market has the same attribute. You either give up a rear seat, less cargo space, take gas MPG hit, or a combination of all.

 

Like a onlooker at a traffic accident, I can stop looking at this post and the new replies. Isn't obvious that Dan and the others on the forum are talking about two different things when they say short trip. Dan I think your definition of shot trip doesn't make sense in this context. Dan is talking about the first few miles of driving until the engines warms. Here is an example of the difference. Please don't comment about the math or how long it take to warm the engine. It is just an example and I am just throwing out numbers.

Driver 1: Driver 1 drives starts cold and drives 5 miles and stops at a destination for an extended period of time and the engine cools again. Lets say for that drive (trip), Driver 1 averages 40 MPG. If Driver 1 does this drive (trip) twice a day, he will have a daily average of 40 MPG

Driver 2: Driver 2 also starts cold and drives 5 miles. At the end of 5 miles Driver 2 averages 40 MPG. Unlike driver 1, Driver 2 continues his drive another 45 miles. At the end of the 50 mile drive (trip), Driver 2 averages 50 MPG because the engine has continued driving with a engine that is warmed and gets better MPG. If this drive (trip) is done twice a day, Driver 2 has a daily average of 50 MPG.

Which drive (trip) is shorter? Driver 1's
Who has a better average MPG? Driver 2. So short trips do reduce your AVERAGE MPG.
Who uses less gas and thus spends less money on gas? Driver 1
Who is more green? I don't care. I bought my Prius so I can save money on my 80 mile round trip commute and I am doing that. I used to worry about my average MPG but now I just drive and say to myself this drive (trip) to work is costing me half as much as it used to.

So Dan is correct in saying that we all get lower AVERAGE MPG in the first few miles of driving until the engine warms up. I don't thing that the first few miles should be called a trip and I think that the title of the post is a little misleading. I think that it should be titled something like "Don't worry about your average MPG it is the amount of gas you use that is important".

 

Also to note, one of the cycle that EPA runs is also a short trip with a cold start. The 50 MPG rating includes that short trip penalty.

The disparity comes out when you have many more frequent short trips than the "typical".

 

Or the engine dies or the transmission. Believe it or not, the HV battery pack has been proven to be the most reliable part.

I assume you put those miles with Prius in PA.

 

Honestly, it should be competing with mid-size cars. In terms of seating and cargo space it's not a compact car. What conventional (non-hybrid) car would you use as a baseline to calculate the hybrid premium?

 

Short Trip is NOT a myth in regards to HSD operation in a Prius.

But what I think the OP meant was that there is a bit of a catch-22 like situation that get's created using a Prius.

Yes, you are not necessarily using any less gas, or being any more green if you have to go to the grocery store in a Prius and you decide NOT to go to the one that is only 3 miles away from your house, and instead go to the one on the other side of town, simply because your overall mileage is likely to be better on the long trip. If you take a long, fully warmed up, battery charged trip in The Prius, your mileage is likely to be great. If you take a shorter trip, where The Prius barely get's warmed up, and the battery may be charging more than assisting...it's likely to be a much more ICE mortal trip. I think that is true. But of course a shorter trip....IS a shorter trip. You're not using any gas, or burning any fuel if you get home quicker and turn the vehicle off. True.

I was a little concerned when I got my Prius, as luckily for me my daily commute to work is pretty short. I don't live too far from work. I thought the short trip penalty would really be bad.

But I'm still impressed. Even though I'm usually forced daily to use The Prius in a manner that is less than optimal, I still find that even on my short to work commute, I'm getting a baseline MPG that is great...not in comparison to a fully warmed up Prius...but in comparison to almost anything else I could be driving. Even if I hop in The Prius and simply go directly to work, which can only be a 6-8 mile commute, Maybe less-I'm arriving at worse with a 26-32 mpg reading. Well, this does NOT upset me...as when I drove my "economical" Honda Fit, if I ended the same short trip with anything approaching 30 mpg, I'd of been very, very happy.

And for me? Even with 1-2 daily non-optimal trips, I still find with overall usage, including whatever weekend driving I do, is returning me near 500 mile tanks, with fill ups of less than 10 gallons of fuel.

So I believe the short trip penalty for Prius or HSD is real, BUT....that reality still trumps most conventional vehicles operation.