Charge by the hour vs. by the kWh

Fair points. However, some businesses probably prefer if people remain at their store/restaurant/entertainment venue longer. The charger is not their profit leader, people spending more time/money at their establishment is.

 

It's complicated.

If the by-the-hour station owner sees mostly faster-charging cars then she will either raise her price or switch to per-kWh pricing in order to maximize revenue. Pricing by the hour will tend to remove slower-charging cars from the customer base thereby potentially lowering overall charging station utilization.

Pricing by both per-kWh and per-hour is an improvement and has been supported for the past 9 months when the ChargePoint 4.0 station software was released.

Another alternative would be some kind of directly sloping price scaling that charged more per-kWh to slow charging cars similar to how the payouts of Las Vegas video poker games vary based on the denomination of the coins bet.

Whatever the pricing policy, it has to be easy to display to the end-customer when they choose to begin a charging session (in both meanings of the phrase).

 

We have 4 chargers at work and they charged $2 per hour. There was one Volt driver who used to charge there but he other plug-ins, 2 leafs, 2 PIP, and 1 Fusion Energi didn't use the charger. They just changed to free charging and the chargers are now being utilized. In the end, the $20 a day parking fee is way more than they would make charging for electricity. Currently the free charge strategy seems to work. The last study I saw was from Khol's and they found that EV drivers on average spent 45 minutes longer in the store than the average customer and spent $50 more.

 

Bingo!
This is exactly why reasonable or even unreasonably low charge costs will make more money for the merchant.
It is like motels offering cable. When cable first came on the scene, it made hotels no money, it was a draw though which brought in more customers than if you didn't offer cable.
Add to that, if customers are spending time taking advantage of the freely offered cable, some of them, maybe lots, are spending more money on hotel amenities.

 

What seems to be catching on with businesses in our area is free for 2 hours, then something like $2/hr. The idea is to provide the service to draw in paying customers, but discourage freeloaders from just parking there all day.

 

So many unanswered questions concerning the costs and logistics of EV driving/ownership. As much as I hate to say it, enforced Federal Regulation Standards (like other fuels) may be the answer to gap the difference between privilege and outright theft as it pertains to charging for charging. Any thoughts?

 

There are already standards about electrical wiring and unlike gas, there is no difference between electricity at different sources or brands of chargers.
The market will decide what prices work and which don't. I see no benefit to the government stepping in and regulation costs.

 

I don't like the idea of Fed Regs anymore than you, but shouldn't there be a "Standard" like other fuels. Gas and diesel is sold by the gallon. The price per may vary, but the standard unit of measure is a "gallon". Time, KWH or some Chinese algebra measure of both, but a least a standard unit of measure used country wide which a local market price can be placed.

 

We have a standard for electricity (kWh), and time (Hours). As I showed above, choosing only one of those is going to be sub-optimal. Making up some mixture of those without the empirical data on what is desired is going to be even worse. Time is more important to places with few stations, and expensive parking costs. Electric rates vary. I see no purpose in making a standard national unit of measure. It would almost certainly favor specific versions of cars, which government should not do. Propose a metric, and I will figure out which cars is most economical.

 

Yes there is a standard for how electricity is charged from the utilities with market based rates. But to me, unless a consistent standard is set for paying to charge EVs, this is just another unknown variable that dissuades further acceptance. At this time some employers and business offer free charging while parking, but as EVs become more numerous I see this less likely. Costs to employers will soon come into play, and in time business may seek additional revenue through surcharges for the need and convenience to their patrons. Priced popcorn and soda at the movie house lately. This may be a bad example, but you get the jest. With a standard, the consumer can make the price based choice where to charge away from home based on the vehicle they drive. Which brings up the other point, the time required to charge. Manufactures are going to have to economically work this problem out in vehicle design. As much as myself and so many others really do want EVs to work, costs and time plays heavily on the issue of range anxiety, which I still see as the single biggest deterrent.

 

I still disagree.
Should the government dictate fees for parking?

As for time of charge, I don't believe it is a as large a deterrent as people that don't have access at home to charge.
The BEVs are targeted at those that can drive all day and charge at home overnight. It is far more convenient than charging while you are out and about and for most of us, a lot cheaper.
And either option is vastly more convenient than stopping on the way somewhere to pump gas into a car. The absolutely least convenient option would be needing to actually sit and wait for a charge if you didn't have something else to do as well (e.g. Movie, dinner, sleep, ball game, etc).

 

Guess I wasn't clear. Parking fees are set buy owner/operator of the property. I was referring to how charging fees are set. Local markets would determine the cost per unit, but a "universal" per unit standard needs to be followed. If one location charges by time and another but KW, there is no unit consistency like a gallon for fuel. The last thing we need is more Fed Regs, but anything is better than no Universal Standard being followed by nation-wide charging stations. These new "Stations" will be necessary if EV use is to progress. Still trying to get my head around the Battery Swap idea...I don't know.

 

Every state has its own laws. If you want to debate the federal system taking away power from the states that is fine. However I would suggest a different thread in FHoPol for that.
I do not find it onerous at all as long as the pricing is listed on the LED of the station. The method of charging should, IMO, be left to the station owners.

 

It isn't that you weren't clear, we just don't agree. You still haven't given ANY reason that a universal unit is needed.

So why don't you provide an example. How would YOU create that unit so that ALL of the following situations are equally fair to all cars, and ALL provide incentive for both sellers and buyers.

1) In the place where the cost of electricity is 7 cents / kWh, and parking is easy and generally free.
2) electricity is 16 cents per kWh, and parking is $2.00 per hour.
3) electricity is 7 cents per kWh and parking is $2.00 per hour.
4) electricity is 16 cents per kWh and parking is free.

 

"In some states you are not allowed to charge for electricity by rate or kWh. This leaves an EV charging station owner to charge a flat rate, charge nothing or charge by the hour. Charging by the hour can really screw up your financial calculations because some cars charge much faster than others on the same 240v source." - Quote from F8L in post #1.



This is the issue my questions (not answers) come from, not "parking Frees". They are in addition to, so leave that out...and I'm not even going touch the topic of incentives. That's where things get political.

I condoned EVs, am on the fence about the purchase of, and have a commute that favors one as an additional vehicle only, for now at least. What I would "like" to see is consistency. When I fill up my Prius I pay $x.xx per gallon, not $x.xx quart. When my Son fills up the Diesel TDI, I pay $x.xx per gallon, not less if he uses the Semi Truck's pump because the flow rate is twice that of the car pump. Should I pay less because it takes half the time to fill up?

I do not have the answers, but feel these are fair questions that should be addressed as Plug-ins, EVs andCharging Stations become more common place.