California: diesels vs hybrids

Due to different views (partly pushed by government subsidies and taxes) we have always had a large percentage of diesel cars in Europe and the Netherlands. What I have seen in the last decade and a half is the enourmous jump in fuel efficiency and power per engine displacement in diesel cars, mainly because the switch to turbo's (started in the 70's 80's but immensly improved in the late 90's and 00's).

I have always wondered why the diesel engines were making such enormous jumps in especially power per displacements, going from 30hp/liter to 100hp/liter and more. 100hp/liter is what I'd expect from a turbocharged PETROL (gas) engine in the 90's...
The gas engines were severely lacking, only now I am seeing a change as more and more small turbocharged gasengines appear. e.g. the 1.4l turbocharged 160hp VW engine is used in loads of cars here.
Probably something you yanks would put in your lawnmowers (Sorry 'bout the generalisation, as I know many on here are different, but as a nation, that statements holds some truth I think...)
I don't pretend to understand the reason larger engines were always preferred in the US, but if lower RPM and larger torque were the main reason, then a switch to dieselengines seems logical. Double the mpg or better, a little more noisy (but soundinsulation can do a lot) and for the rest comparable performance.

For me I'd say don't do it, as diesel is the fuel of the devil... (I have a diesel Volvo that has some unresolvable issues (that Volvo class as 'normal behaviour') and the 1.9l non-turbo diesel VW Polo (<30hp/l) that my wife had as a company car wasn't impressive either.)

 

Our drug store cowboy types are the bread and butter of "fancy" pickup sales: 4x4, leather, double cab, grill guards, extra lighting, etc. My casual observational evidence seems to point to an increase in diesels in them. If those get better FE than the traditional monster V8's (do they?), I guess that's a step in the right direction. (trying to be an optimist)

 

Societal expectations and to some degree to handle the larger vehicles. We had a boom of over-sized sedans and pick ups followed by a fad of ridiculously enormous SUVs. The societal norm continues to be that you should feel bad driving a smaller car, or a car with a small engine. Small sedans and hatchbacks are considered to be the territory of kids (who can't afford better or whose parents bought it for them) and poor families. There is also a big push that smaller cars might not be safe driving amongst all the larger vehicles, a scare tactic to keep people buying the larger ones. Being frugal and getting the car you need generally isn't encouraged, you should be spend spend spend and get the car you want.

Fortunately the trend seems to be slowing down a little. Gas prices have gone up quite a bit in the last few years and many people are considering fuel efficiency over size. Car manufacturer marketing departments have finally realized they need to capitalize on this trend over the bigger cars with bigger engines that they normally promote. Personally I've driven larger vehicles my whole life, the C is the smallest thing I've ever owned, and if it wasn't for my current driving job I probably wouldn't have even taken a look at it. Best buy I ever made, and even if I do go back to a normal office job, I'll still be getting that sweet 60+mpg and saving a ton of cash.

 

Reason for Diesel trucks is usually towing power vs. fuel mileage. Diesel fuel is about 12% higher cost so that typcally wipes out any fuel economy advantage for Diesels.

Diesel is about 10% less in Europe so it becomes an additive in terms of mileage. That is why Diesel cars are big in Europe along with the smart government policy that pushed fuel economy in the entire economy including cars which is why Europe is 50% more energy efficient on a per capita and per GDP dollar basis than US.

The price differential in fuel is main reason Diesel didn't catch on and why hybrids did as fuel prices overall rose and environmental concerns about global warming crystalized.

 

It's a fact stated by IIHS (?) that a larger vehicle will fare better against a smaller vehicle in an accident: It's just physics and common sense too.

The US, at least, has voted with their wallet that their favorite format of car is the 'midsize' 4 door sedan with trunk. Sales numbers prove it every month with Camry, Accord Altima, Fusion, Sonata, Optima, Malibu, etc....

40+ average MPG midsize sedan hybrids would be a great goal, but I see the current problem as reduced trunk space and limited or nearly blocked rear seat fold down pass through from trunk. Even Camry hybrid shows its weakness with small hole for pass through. If they ...

1) hold price less than $3k extra for hybrid version
2) maximize trunk and pass through

.... there's a bright future for mid sedan hybrids. Writing is on the wall. Lot of them too: Toyota, Honda (Fall '13), Kia, Hyundai, Nissan should be back, Ford, Chevrolet. But most of them stuck at 1,000 ish sales per month here.

 

Because we have tons of big roads with 65 MPH speed limits on local freeways and up to 70 (or is it 75?) mph limits on Interstates.

Larger engines? Simple. Gas is still held to a bit over $4/gal in SF bay area. What is it $8 equivalent in most of Europe?

The V8 gas engine is still worshiped and revered by many old school folks who couldn't imagine having anything smaller. Many are probably big NASCAR fans too.

 

I think it's Texas that has 80 mph roads now, meaning most people go 85 and get a max of 25 mpg.

 

Maximum state highway speeds are 75mph, some interstates out in the open west are 80mph, and one toll road is 85mph. Sections through heavily populated/congested areas see a reduction on these.

 

Everything is bigger here -- vehicles, engines, houses, meals, waists, butts, egos, ...

Passenger car diesel engines here are still significantly burdened by GM's diesel debacle a generation ago.

 

No, people are turned off about diesels due to trucks and buses that still give off plumes of smoke and stench. There are many that don't even know there are diesel cars out there and don't know that there were GM diesel cars.

 

And people not knowing they exist causes other issues, like adding the wrong fuel to a vehicle. Everyone knows diesel is for trucks and regular gas is for their cars, having the vehicles on the road match their perceptions so they don't have to think about it actually helps prevent problems.

 

The GM hybrid pickup trucks (and full-size Tahoe and Yukon hybrid SUVs) are/were not BAS. They're true 2 mode hybrids.

 

What is the gen3's payload capacity? I remember the gen2 was between 8 to 9 hundred pounds.
Transit Connect might be the only small commercial van left. It can haul 1600 pounds. Most buyers might not need it, but it is needed to be taken seriously in the segment. Many lamenting the end of the Ranger wanted them because it could tow and haul what they needed for work, and didn't they want to upsize. Perhaps the HSD could handle it, but Toyota doesn't seem to want to risk it. The HiHy gets by using a V6 and third motor driving the rear.

Fuel economy regs are what is killing the small pick up. For trucks, target mpg for CAFE are based on vehicle's footprint of wheelbase and track. The smaller the truck the higher the target, with the increase being greater than linear. Ford cancelled the F100 because of this, and I've seen an article about how this might kill of regular cab, full size pick ups. A hybrid, or possibly small diesel, might be the only way to save them.

I went and cut it out of the quote there, but wonder how much of the diesel truck to car ratio is influenced by the small diesel car selection. During that time, it was only German manufacturers, and most of them were luxury brands.

 

They are also very capable. Unfortunately "hybrid" name doesn't appeal to shallow-minded truck drivers who think they need a diesel v8

 

Yes, 2-mode is quite expensive. But imagine possibilities.....a PHEV Silverado, using the Volt's battery.
Should have 16 miles AER and phenomenal mpg.

 

Not much "old school" in the world of V8 engines, except maybe your generalization.

I personally am an F1 fan.

I personally miss the 18,000 rpm V10's. They had a much more musical sound to them.

Some NASCAR for you.