Introduction, initial concerns (long)

Getting there...
Just because the engine's running all the time doesn't mean that you aren't benefitting from the hybridness of the overall car. Using the battery and electric motor has allowed Toyota to use a different sort of valve timing (called an Atkinson cycle) that is more efficient but, by itself would be an unsatisfactory prime mover.
You are right that with short trips and high speed trips you wouldn't be in the super mileage stats but you must consider that any car you drive suffers degraded mileage from short trips and high speeds.
Bottom line: If you end up averaging 45 - 48 mpg over *all* of your driving that would still be a substantial improvement over any other car you might consider, right?

 

Except the c and Gen 1, California purchased and owned cars have a 10/150,000 hybrid battery warranty

 

It is tricky to guess future gas pricing, I figured out I would 'pay' for the Hybridness in 5.5 years at $2.50 gas. I have not actually seen $2.50 gas in years, I paid for my Hybrid Premium in 3.3 years at $3.50 gas.

You seem to be thinking like I did while buying my first Prius. I would never go back.

 

Warm-Up means getting the engine coolant to the minimum temperature needed to cleanse emissions. In the summer, that can be less than a minute. In the winter (well below freezing), it can take 6 to 8 minutes... sometimes longer, depending on the driving circumstances. That means if you stop somewhere, say at the place where you are running a quick errand, there may be no warm-up at all upon leaving. Sitting there all day at work, it will be completely cooled. It totally depend on how duration of drive & visit.

114°F is the minimum. That's actually rather trivial compared to outside temperatures during the summer and the fact that at full speed on the highway settles at 195°F. But in contrast to the great MPG you get afterward, the engine running for heat, it's noticeable.

Also, keep in mind that Prius actively generates electricity. So while the engine is running, it's topping off the battery. That's why overall results are often quite impressive.

 

I've had my "v" for year and a half now. I love the great mpg's and spaciousness inside.

Here's a few considerations:

Any other non-hybrid car will get it's worst mpg during short/city drives anyway. Unless you buy an econobox, a lot of the popular models fall in the $20-25K category. Right where the Prius falls (LB, 2012 v, c).

Short Drives:

In warmer (socal) weather, the Prius (Lift Back, v, c) will warm up fairly quickly. I'm guessing less than a mile but I could be wrong. My v warms up within the first mile and then runs in/out of EV from there on as long as <46 mph. Red traffic lights will kill the city mpg. These cars will still deliver upper 40's to low 50's mpg (the vee included) if you travel short distances (5-10 mi one way) as long as you don't have to stop and get going again within a short distance.

Heres and example. I have a boat at a marina in town. When I go on vacation in July, I'll make several trips from my house to the boat during the day for several days while getting the boat ready for our trip. The boat is 4 mi from my house. I still average 48 mpg over several days traveling 4 mi each way because I only have to stop only a couple of times and the speed limit around town is 25 mph. I descend on a long hill to town and climb it back up on the way home. Still average 45-48 mpg.

Maintenace:

As far as DIY maintenance, I don't expect to do much maintenace to my vee after Toyota Care (2 years/25K mi -- all regular maint is free) expires. Anything associated with the hybrid system is warranted for 8 years/100K mi (my vee in WA or more in CA). Besides, most things under the hood won't go bad for a long time and even then you problaby shouldn't mess with it due to high voltages.

Apparently, spark plug replacement requires more labor due to dismantling of the wipers and motors to access the firewall. Not impossible according to the video posted but not as easy as most cars. The good news is that you don't have to for the first 120K miles. Oil changes require opening a panel below the engine to access the drain plug and filter but still no more complex that most modern cars.

Toyota legendary reliability.
Prius legendary hybrid system. Second to none!
Real world fuel economy that meets or exceeds EPA estimates (unlike some new Ford hybrid products).

Now my plug for the vee (no offense to LB owners):

Not much more money than the Lift Back.
You can still get 2012's for around 25K.
No split window in the back.
No center console bridge.
Much more room.
LCD radio with bluetooth (bluetooth you music from your smartphone) and standard backup camera in the lowest trim level.
Push button start (standard in LB and vee).
Spare tire in the 2012. Not sure about 2013.
Nicer profile than the LB (I'm biased). Looks like a mini-mini van.

I think you will be happy with the Prius. You really do get a lot of car for the money!

 

Add to that the fact that the tank is only 11.9g. You typically only put no more than 10g and get over 400 miles (or over 500 miles for a lot of people) per tank. You'll end up paying less than $45 (in CA) per fill up! And, 20 mi/day X 5 days (???) X 4 weeks = 400 mi. That's one fill up per month!!!

 

Excellent point. We often forget to point out that reality.

Sadly, those non-hybrid cars don't have a detailed display... for that matter, nothing at all... showing you MPG information as you drive. Seeing that is quite eye-opening. People typically have no idea. Heck, some don't even realize how far their MPG drops when winter-formula fuel is used instead of the summer stuff.

As for your v model comments, a quick look inside at the dealer confirms you're spot on about the interior space benefit. (It's bigger on the inside. )

 

CaptianStarbuck, you are trying to rationalize a Prius in one form or another just like many of us here did before we crossed over.

For $15200 you can by a base Yaris that gets 30/37 mpg and the "cost/value" would be very hard to beat. But is that what you want to drive? If you want to hug bunnies, a fully loaded Tesla S with over 200 mile range and quick charger will cost you about $108,000 after tax credits. But you likely can't/won't do that based on your conversation.

Consider how much you are going to spend on a vehicle first, regardless of MPG. Then what you want in a vehicle, amenities, space, ect... Like many, there is likely a happy medium with one of the Prius family that may suit your desires and wants. One that will still give you better MPG than anything else new and not keep you eternally tethered to an extension cord if you go to SF, Reno or anywhere else for that matter.

What ever vehicle you buy, wish you the best.

 

Based on the fact you stated you drive '10 miles per day', let's assume you do that 7 days a week, so 70 miles per week, or 3,640 miles per year.

IF you only drive 3,640 miles per year, a hybrid is pretty much NOT the vehicle for you.

Even if you did that '10 miles per day' in one trip, the gas engine would not even get fully warmed up to give you the big fuel economy numbers, like 50 MPGs.

In 10 years, you'd only have about 36,000 miles on the car, then the hybrid battery warranty would be over, which btw, in California and the other CARB states is 10 years / 150k miles.

So, knowing this first post, hybrid is not worth it. Also a plug-in hybrid is really not worth it for 3,600 miles per year.

Not saying you couldn't buy one 'for fun', but they are not really designed such short distance driving. Hybrids need to get out and go places, IMO.

 

If able, call Toyota dealer and rent any hybrid for a day, Prius, Camry, ... Fremont Toyota will rent even for only 2 hours. Cost: $10.90 with tax.

Toyota non plug in hybrids are not designed to run continuously on electric drive.

When first powered up from cold, the gas engine will come on in several seconds to warm up, guaranteed (if it doesn't, the car is, well, broken). The gas engine might shut off at your first stop light 1/2 mile away, and will shut off coasting into stops and when stopped. ...

A Prius or Camry hybrid, will 'EV' (move without gas) in a parking lot and sometimes it will EV under 30 MPH in our home tract only 3/4 mile away from starting cold or it may EV near 40 MPH, but I don't pay attention to that. Been driving Prius' for 4 years, I just drive the thing.

but, for accelerating in traffic, getting out and going on the road, GAS engine is needed.

When driving a hybrid, you DON'T want to 'try so hard' to get it to run on electric by accelerating very slowly, or driving very slowly. Just drive with flow of traffic.

Some people practice 'hypermiling' part of which involves coasting as much as possible, but I have found that often amounts to 'driving very sllloowwwly' which I do not have the time for.

Hybrids will run at times on electric only, but I don't even pay attention anymore, the blend between electric and gas is so smooth, it just does what it does.

 

To accelerate a Prius, the gas engine will come on immediately (at high throttle input) or within a couple seconds at low throttle. The electric drive does not have much power to accelerate like a normal car. The plug-in or and all electric does, but they have very large Li-Ion type traction batteries.

You may be wondering 'well, if the gas engine kicks on immediately, what's the benefit of a Prius (or any other hybrid?) .... glad you asked ...

Although the gas engine is virtually required to accelerate the car up to, say 35 or 40 MPH, once up to that speeds, not much power is required to sustain it. Prius can shut off the gas engine at times and maintain 25 MPH for maybe a mile or 40 MPH for a shorter distance, it depends on load requirements, but nothing a driver needs to worry about.

When coasting, gas flow is shut off immediately. Driving a Prius, you can tell it coasts really well and that it is very efficient while coasting. In fact, on freeway slowdowns, you better be alert on the brakes so it doesn't coast into a car ahead of you. It's a bit heavy car for its size, but the brakes work well.

When stopped, the gas engine is reliably off.

Prius really shines in slow and go 'parking lot' type of commeter traffic because it can creep forward Really well on electric drive and go quite a ways like that without using any gas. This plus regenerative braking adds up to big MPGs. In warmer weather and longer trips well over 5 miles, 50 MPG on gage is common.

 

Assuming you only drive 3,600 miles per year, if someone is trying to talk you into a $32,000 (minus tax break, incentives) plug-in Prius, that would be one heck of a waste of money. So, you drive 40, 000 miles in 10 to 13 years then need a new Li-Ion traction battery for who knows how much money. Stay away from that Kool-Aid.

 

I disagree with your statement that the car would not get 50 mpg on that short of a drive. My "v" wagon will consistently get 48 mpg on an 8 mi rountrip (I can post a video if you like). It all depends on how many red lights you hit and what speed you have to achieve again after a stop. The engine doesn't need to fully warm up to run in EV. I can EV 1-2 minutes after a cold start and run up to 35 mph while staying in EV for 1 mile+.

I'll try to post one of my videos. Give a couple of days to edit and post.

I

 

Ok, so you are somewhere in SoCal, which first off means the traction battery is 10 yr/ 150k miles.

You are doing two 10 mile round trips per day, so 7,200 something miles per year. That's better.

In a 5 mile trip, I'll bet your MPG gage will reach about 45 MPG in winter and 50 MPG in summer, but the gage is over 5% optimistic, so your actual might be about 42 or 3 Winter and 47 Summer.

Some things to think about with Prius liftback (the regular), the current 3rd generation: Road noise is a little high on the freeway (I think hatchbacks generally tend to offer up more road noise than trunked sedans).

If you are tall (I'm 6'2") you may find the limited steering wheel adjustment range annoying (it causes me to raise my driver's seat higher than I'd prefer causing loss of right leg support). I rely on a piece of foam stuck to center console for right leg support. Not so cool in a $25,000 car, but IMO, the steering wheel is fairly a sore spot in this car.

The armrests not so great in the car: Door armrest is so low for me, I have a 1 1/2" thick foam pad to make it decent. Also use a 1/2" foam pad on center armrest which only has thin fabric over hard plastic.

Prius can get blown around a good bit in strong crosswinds.

Prius is still a somewhat maligned car, sometimes referred to only as a 'hybrid' by some. Not a big deal though. Nobody complains about it when riding in mine. It rides pretty soft, easy on the backside.

 

Yaris?

That's apple and oranges. The only comparison for the Yaris is the Prius c. The Yaris can't compare to a Prius or a Prius v. You are getting a heck more car with more technological features that the Yaris.

 

Did you buy the wrong car?

 

Sounds like you may be pretty concious of your driving as 48 MPG average in your Prius v is well over the fuelly.com aggregate average which, last time I checked was about 42 MPG give or take a couple.

Big numbers are possible with hypermiling. Not saying you do, but I tried a bunch of coasting, watching traffic behind, generally driving very SLOW. It was a drag, so I just drive normally. I do a lot of mixed SF suburban driving and the gage is often 52 or 53.x which is a smidg over 50 actual.

 

Not driving "very SLOW " unless "very SLOW" = speed limit (60 on I-5 which is 80% of my commute). In that case, yes. I do take advantage of "gliding" opportunities (descending grades) but the car won't slow down at all. In fact, it will speed up.