Characteristics Jetta vs Prius people

I'm still surprised at how little hybrid/diesel crossover there is.
My wife really likes her 2012 Audi A-3 TDI--She's getting about 41 MPG overall vs. my Prius about 47 mpg overall doing similar (mostly highway) driving. I really like the Prius, and though it isn't as zippy as the TDI, I don't find it as wimpy to drive as some folks do.

 

never considered going vw or anything euro for that matter because i factored in the price premium of maintaining and servicing them.

as for wimpy handling, a cheap rear sway bar, strut tower brace, and mid chassis brace upgrade will address that considerably and make it a joy to ride. : )

 

1. I agree, but I think that there are two important effects in play. One is what you say (increased drag at higher speeds). But the other is that there are efficiency curves for each engine at different loads and RPMs. See link, figure one as an example: Rather Light Vehicles -- Fuel Economy Article

If you study the graph you see that you cannot get high efficiency unless you have a (relatively) high load on the engine. If you ONLY look at speed (and thus drag) you would think your optimum point is near zero mph. But it isn't.

2. The key thing about a combined gas and electric hybrid is that the designers get to choose to NOT use the gas engine where it is inefficient. They also get to choose an engine that has its peak efficiency at a different speed/RPM than in a conventional car because they can augment the engine with an electrical motor on the low end and/or high end to get the performance and mpg that they want.

So far, Toyota has done this better than others, in terms of optimizing for highest mpg.

Mike

 

I'm quite happy with the dynamics of our Prius vagon, and my fuel economy is 50/60/70 for highway/county/city.

When a manufacturer can improve that economy in a price competitive, reliable, and SULEV+ alternative I'll be happy to look. Vdub ? You must be kidding.

 

And this
VW Officials Apologize for Faulty DSG Gearbox in China - autoevolution

Plus this
Volkswagen China Recall May Cost More Than $600 Million - Bloomberg

In Australia, Vdub still trying to deny there is a problem with their fancy DSG and blown engines, potentially facing hundred of angry owners in court
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carsguide.com.au%2Fnews-and-reviews%2Fcar-news%2Fvolkswagen_golf_118tsi_warning&ei=c1qOUYGkDYiFiAe4o4GQAg&usg=AFQjCNFikO-kX5uBp2qaoHs5LnQ_T3Optw&bvm=bv.46340616,d.aGc

Just look up facebook "My Golf is a Lemon", especially setup for Aussie owners.

 

To answer the question.......it is a Golf (not a jetta) and I am at 42mpg. As I said, I am not here to argue/compare mileage. First I drive 90% highway, so the Prius is not necessarily at it's best there, I did not/do not do enough city driving to offset the lower highway mpg, considering my driving style I am close to the same mpg in my VW. 'Yes' I pay more for diesel fuel, 'yes' I enjoy driving my VW much more than the Prius. Just the way it is for me, I enjoy sporty cars, Toyota's answer to people like me was the Prius C, I don't like the design both exterior and interior. I was part of the customer survey that answered questions about handling, ride quality etc. Just not for me. It also does not help that the Toyota dealer in my city is 'horrendous'. Too lengthy to explain. I get wonderful/exceptional service at the VW dealership and am happy as can be. Let's just say the mileage is close for the highway, just what is your preference.....thanks....enjoy your Prius, I am enjoying my car!!

 

Its memes like this that have GOT TO STOP, and if I have to go to every blog on the internet and scream in ALL CAPS, I'll do it. Since when is the Prius about the environment? Who said that? Who created this myth? Was it South Park? If so, that was like....in 2002!!???
Seriously, I am SICK AND TIRED of hearing about how Prius drivers made their choice because of "the environment".
I realize you said wallet first, and a lesser extent for the environment.....but...has it ever occurred to you SHOCK - that maybe I care about our troops more than the earth? That I want to reduce/eliminate our imports of oil? What is wrong with this country....when SUV/Pickup drivers put a yellow sticker on the back of their SUV to "show their support" (can you say IRONY?) while blog after blog, Prius/hybrid drivers are portrayed as un-american tree-huggers!?

 

Seriously. You need to pull it back a bit and calm down - way out of context.

 

?
Some of us buy it for the wallet (successful only if you keep it for a while), some because we think it's good for the environment, some for saving the troops from the next oil war, some for reliability, some for coolness, some for an unfathomable mixture of motives.
OTOH, I'm OK if someone who warns us by choosing the name "Scorpion" stings occasionally.

 

Sure, I agree with your list...but I do have to seperate into two groups of things

But first I have to define what the groups are and why. Consider how the EPA tests are run. Essentially they find the absolute best mpg you can get for the given test run, then apply fudge factors to adjust it down. Features like electric AC and the like don't come into play since they are off. And the effect of AC design 1 and AC design 2 is merely how much mpg are your going to lose...a little or a lot...you do not gain anything on your maximum possible mpg from an AC. Regenerative braking also falls into this category...having this or not, or how efficient it is does not affect your maximum possible mpg at all. Regen just allows you to lose less mpg when you brake compared to a conventional car that always loses a lot when you brake. (In a theoretical max mpg test run you would have no braking at all).

With that in mind, here is your list, modified into two groups (with some major items added *):

Things that affect the max possible mpg in the Prius

• high payload to vehicle ratio
• low aerodynamic drag
• low transmission internal drag
• engine size and thermodynamic cycle (Atkinson) *
• Motor generator size, design and power split device *
• hybrid motor/engine power sharing software algorithms *
• battery size and charging efficiency *

Things that allow the Prius to minimize losses:

• low-rolling resistance tires
• regenerative braking
• electronic power braking
• electronic power steering
• electronic air conditioning
• electric water pump

The first group is what allows the Prius to achieve a very high peak, theoretical, mpg (at a given set of conditions, such as temp, level road, etc.). The second group is what allows the Prius to get as close to that number as possible. I'm sure one could argue a bit on some of these items, such as LRR tires, perhaps. But the point is that what makes the Prius a high mpg car, overall, are the main items in the first list.

Mike

 

A few weeks ago I got to share a ride with a dude who was in the Army for 17 years. A soldier who'd seen Iraq, Afghanistan, Sierra Leone, and a whole lot more. His wife was killed a few years ago by an IED overseas. He seemed fairly distraught and didn't have a bunch good to say about the experience, wars for oil, etc...

His opinion was 'a' reason for US being in Afghanistan was to build and oil pipeline from A to B. This guy hated cars, didn't even want to own one, wanted to see personal car ownership banned. But he had no problem catching rides in mine which is hypocritical.

Not sure what my point is, but life seems awfully conflicted when a news flash reports 400 ppm CO2, then the next commercial is for a luxury sedan with 280 horsepower V6 engine.

I'm under no suspicion the Prius is saving the planet, but it helps out and I happen to believe in HSD. Now if they'd tighten up the wrapper, that would be sweet, and it ought to boost sales which is the whole point of Prius. They do have enough batteries to feed much higher demand, right?

 

I can't agree with his reasoning, but the doctrine that got us involved in Afghanistan so many years ago, was about going there to "protect" the oil. We need to stop that BS in our government. Using less oil is a great reason that environmentalists and conservatives can agree to get more efficient and switch away.

No conflict with the tesla. If someone buys a clean diesel instad of a V6 then it helps a little. Its not a lot, but a little bit, and we shouldn't fight hybrid, plug-in, and diesel folks. We all should work together to use less. Different ways to reduce. Unfortunately we are not reducing as fast as many of us would like. Hybrid and plug-in are still only around 4%.
+1

 

I was just going over this and thought I would add to what austingreen already posted. Looking at what % of these trips that can be covered on battery by each Plug-In; PIP(11), Ford Energi(20), Chevy volt(38) and others.

Figure 4-6: Vehicle Trips and Mileage by Trip Length

Office of Highway Policy Information (OHPI) – Highway Finance Data Collection

 

Bob I thought he was asking if Toyota could make more batteries if they could sell more cars.

 

Looked like an interesting article but wasn't able to get past the first page without it going blank and saying 'aw snap, something went wrong'.

 

A TDI-Hybrid would, in my opinion, eventually make more sense than a spark-ignited hybrid. Diesel cycle is still more efficient even than the so-called Atkinson cycle, which is not exactly a real Atkinson cycle because it doesn't use an articulated crankshaft to provide a power stroke longer than the compression stroke. Peugeot currently makes some Diesel-powered hybrids, SAAB have also been testing it before the economic crisis which led to its demise, and it's already increasing popularity in heavy-duty trucks and buses. It's also worth to note that in other markets smaller Diesel engines are also available for the Golf and the Jetta, which could be used in a TDI-Hybrid, such as the 3-cylinder 1.4 TDI.