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hydrolock

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by chronon, Mar 11, 2013.

  1. chronon

    chronon Active Member

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    I have read that when this happens under rpm/load it will destroy components, but that if at idle or before the motor starts it will just shut the engine from moving.

    Water was introduced into the 05 through the intake manifold - a condition of siphoning from a water tank at a higher level occurred unknowingly and perhaps 1 + quart was in the intake with the engine started - it did start and then stopped pretty quickly with a large shock or thump ...

    Some gas and oil were introducted into the cylinders to attempt lubrication, taken the plugs out and blown compresssed air to remove any left over water (this is about 2 days after the occurrence) and have turned the crank with the 19mm nut on the crankshaft pulley(dealer tech support indicates the wheels should be off the ground when doing this). I have 1 bar left on the HV bat and good V on the nearly new aux. bat..

    When attempting to start, it might get about 1/4 of rev and it stops.. When the start button is pushed again to turn it off there is another quick attempt at starting it seems the computer does this.

    Has anybody or do the shop tech manuals indicated how to crank the engine without the MG1 (which doesnt seem to be doing it).
     
  2. Lavalamp

    Lavalamp Junior Member

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    You can theoretically install a starter on the ICE and give it some 12v power, but I'm not sure how this would work in conjunction with the HV system.

    And in my non-professional opinion that isn't your problem. I believe the car starts with the 12v battery and not the HV battery, that and your engine ingested water with the engine started. The problem being that water doesn't compress and it could have easily bent some things in your engine.

    Also I don't quite understand why you were syphoning from a water tank with your intake...
     
  3. boppo

    boppo Active Member

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    The 12 volt battery only starts the computers in the car.
     
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  4. chronon

    chronon Active Member

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    Syphon was not intended but physics and nature took it's course ....
     
  5. chronon

    chronon Active Member

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    I am able to turn the crank forward and backward about ~1/4 to 1/3 rev using 19mm on the crank nut and breakerbar- I imagine the ign. should be in on (not start) and trans in nuetral ( like was done to tow it ).
     
  6. nh7o

    nh7o Off grid since 1980

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    There is no way to start this engine without the HV battery. There is no starter motor, MG1 does that job.

    Are you turning the crank with the plugs in or out? I would try turning with the plugs out, just to make sure that it does move through several complete revolutions without problem. I hope there is no valve damage!
     
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  7. chronon

    chronon Active Member

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    Yes - plugs are out when turning crank - there is barely enuf room with 19mm 3/8"drive to turn with breaker bar about 1/8 of turn (likely less) -- Is anyone able to turn the engine crank as is with the plugs out or am I doing something that cant be done ?
    Maybe that is the problem that a valve is stuck though I have read that _this engine does not have valve overlap interference and the valves cant hit the piston if the timing chain gets off a tooth or more).
     
  8. PriusInParadise

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    You should be able to rotate the crankshaft an unlimited number of turns using the crank pulley bolt. If you cannot complete even one full turn with the spark plugs removed, you probably have a bent connecting rod.
    By the way, MG1 cranks the engine using power from the HV battery. Under normal conditions, each start attempt uses approx 1% of the battery charge. The minimum state of charge (SOC) to start the engine is about 22%. One bar on the battery indicator is approx 40%. You would need a scantool to accurately read the battery SOC below 1 bar.
     
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  9. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    Yes I agree with the post above having had the same problem with a Mazda 626 bought flood damaged. The engine would only turn about 1/2 a revolution before locking.

    The best solution in your position is to fit a secondhand unit from a breakers yard, quicker and cheaper than dismantling and repairing the engine you have as other damage might be discovered.

    John (Britprius)
     
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  10. toyotechwv

    toyotechwv Toyota Technician

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    You read wrong.

    SPH-D710 ? 2
     
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  11. 3prongpaul

    3prongpaul Hybrid Shop Owner, worked on 100's of Prius's

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    A normal Prius engine can be turned over by hand when car is off since it has very little compression in this mode. It takes a little effort but you can turn the crank pulley with your bare hands.

    You can bolt a 12V starter to the Prius motor but it won't do anything since their is no ring gear on the flywheel for it to mate with.
     
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  12. chronon

    chronon Active Member

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    - I thought about engine replacement -- and looked into the cost -- then I read a post about the removal of the engine, how it has to drop down with the tranny from the bottom ... that is def. sounding like a hydraulic lift garage deal. it could be done in a residential garage I don't see as viable without a 'cherry picker' (engine crane). It sounds like a lot of training to perform - I imagine one would be in the salvage business to have pulled a motor/hybrid unit down and out of the prius as it would be done quickly without the worry of putting it back into a smashed unit... The average enhthusiast prob. has the dealer/specialist garage (like Luscious Garage in CA) do it right and timely...
     
  13. 3prongpaul

    3prongpaul Hybrid Shop Owner, worked on 100's of Prius's

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    If you don't want to do the work yourself, find a local independent Toyota shop to help you change out the engine.

    They don't even have to be a hybrid specialist.
    Once you remove the inverter dropping the engine/tranny is similar to Yaris/Corolla. I can offer tips/guidance via telephone if you find a shop willing to do it.

    You can also make a lowering winch like this and do it your garage yourself. (photos from a gen1 but gen2 is similar) Technical question -- Engine Swap | PriusChat

    It's not that hard if you are a weekend wrencher and have basic shop tools or can borrow tools from a friend.
     
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  14. chronon

    chronon Active Member

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    i wonder if the dealer would take an engine provided and put it in .. and what the labor costs would be on that ...
     
  15. 3prongpaul

    3prongpaul Hybrid Shop Owner, worked on 100's of Prius's

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    Some smaller dealers are willing to let customers BYOP. (bring your own parts)
    Best to call around your area. Good used engine should be no more than $600-$800 these days.
     
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  16. chronon

    chronon Active Member

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    htanks for your help and assistance -- excellent writeup on your pulling the motor with the wood gantry and winch ...
    - engines are in the bone yards awaiting a new home - but I still don't know the extent of the damage on mine ---
    it prob. has a bent rod or something with the valve train /cam --- i'm guessing the rod --- but not 100% sure -- if i could only X-Ray the engine and see the internals !!!!
     
  17. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    Replacing con rods can be done without removing the engine. All that is required is removal of the cylinder head and sump pan. The problem with the Prius engine is the cylinder liner may be cracked.

    Parts that will be needed apart from gaskets:-

    Con rod
    Set of big end shell bearings
    Possibly 1 piston and ring set.
    + gaskets, oil, and engine coolant.

    When I did the Mazda one con rod was bent and the bearing shell flattened. The piston had compressed jamming the rings. The 16 valve cylinder head and valves were fine. Belt driven cams interference engine.

    John (Britprius)
     
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  18. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    Removal of the sump pan is not a big job and a fare assessment of the damage can be made from the bottom of the engine.

    John (Britprius)
     
  19. chronon

    chronon Active Member

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    Thats probablly the thing to do -- is remove the oil pan -- since i already drained a pint of oil which was part water anyway ... the oil needs a change in line must do and I can shine the light up and see what I can see from there with it lifted up maybe a 6" or so on the jackstands .... Thx !! (i had a tech repair man on the gen 1 pri but sold it when i sold that car) ..;(
     
  20. chronon

    chronon Active Member

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    just when i want to dive into this .. have to help a friend on a road trip .-- -dela deal ay !!!