Are Annual Hybrid/EV Owner Fees Fair?

If you visit the UK you get taxed without any representation...why the concern when you visit another state? You do have representation for taxes where you reside, unlike in 1776.

Mike

 

Yes, one is overpaying but the other issue is that it discourages people from getting a more fuel efficient vehicle. Raising the gas tax would not do that and also help make up for lost revenue due to more efficient vehicles.

 

It doesn't discourage but rather fails to encourage, right? It's not like you'd be paying more because you have a Prius.

 

Washington State Senators King and Eide have introduced SB5857 2/26/13 which imposes a $75 annual tax on hybrids.

I would rather see usage based revenue from gas tax or mileage adjustment for "needed" transporation efforts. I've seen this state co-fund a few roads where I don't think they were needed.

The wind was blowing a different direction 4 years ago when Washington State exempted sales taxes on hybrids. I would sign a petition for a WA Governer Veto of SB5857, if the bill persists.

 

Of course these fees are NOT fair.

Perhaps Virginia should also charge bicycle riders $100 a year for riding bicycles.

Perhaps Virginia should also charge bus riders an extra $100 a year for riding the bus.

Perhaps Virginia should also charge car pool riders an extra $100 a year for car pooling.

It is the same issue.

Utilizing less gas means less tax revenue for the state. The state has to raise revenue somewhere.

But it is blatantly unfair to target hybrid drivers when car poolers, bus riders and bicycle riders also reduce fuel tax revenue to the state.

 

They are fair (in that everyone in a state is treated alike) but they are unjust (in that they are ex-post facto laws enacted after you have made your purchase). When one arm of government incentivizes actions and the afterwards another arm penalizes the same behavior you also have a form of entrapment. It is rare that government involvement in commerce ever promotes long-term benefits.

 

Politics and taxation is a strange game. When governors get wind of this VA road tax it will spread like wild fire. Best to put out a spark before it becomes a forest fire

 

...in VA our gasoline tax is lowest in the country, so $35/yr is Hybrid tax savings, both Fed+State tax. So that is ONE reason $100/yr for VA is overkill, not to mention annual property taxes higher on hybrids. These calcs based on 12k miles per year, something like Civic or Camry where you can get the Hybrid/Non-Hybrid delta tax.

The govs met in DC last week, so there may be some cross pollination...sorry.

 

So what does a gallon of 87 Octane cost in Virginia today? Don't give me the lowest price but something in the Middle of the Price range at a major chain like Shell

 

I'm not saying I like the idea of extra taxes on hybrids or EVs...or tracking miles and taxing the miles. I'm just saying that it isn't like taxation without representation of 200+ years ago.

To summarize:
- yes, higher mpg cars will cause tax revenue to go down
- but we shouldn't reward/encourage high mpg cars, then turn around and discourage them
- the total tax revenue for a $100 hybrid tax isn't enough in most states to spend the legislative time and administrative time to enact and collect the money...except maybe in CA. And here (I think) the goverment has enough sense to not give a $1500 state rebate for PHEV/EV then turn around and tax them.
- the whole thing could probably be solved with a 5 cent/gal gas tax that goes up 1 cent per year.
- states with sales tax already get more revenue as gas prices increase, because it is a percentage...when gas was $2 the state collect half as much as now...but I bet they don't show the accounting that way

Mike

 

Today we are $3.85 +-10 cents in NoVa. The new lower gaso tax when enacted would be 6-cents less per gallon, if we see it. We have 17.5 cents/gal state tax now, going to like 11.5 cents (but its really 3.5% of wholesale).

 

Shell close to my home in Carlsbad (San Diego No County Coastal) I pay about 4.29 per gallon for 87 octane fuel.

I use about 30 gallons of fuel a month which is the high average. California we pay about 45 cents more per gallon than Virginia based on todays calculation and info you provided so about $162 extra per year in fuel for me living in California.

But in California I believe my annual car registration is higher.

 

In California we are required to use a special low-emissions gasoline blend that is only produced in California. And the oil companies carefully tune production capacity at the California refineries so any production glitch (or even scheduled maintenance) results in a "shortage" and an excuse to raise the price.

 

VA tax is 17.5 cents/gal
CA tax is 68.0 cents/gal (just heard this on TV a minute ago so check me)

> So you pay +50 cents/gallon more than me - just due to CA gaso tax alone.
> So if I am paying $3.85 you should be paying $4.35

If you are paying any less than $4.35, then you are actually paying less for gaso than me (except for CA tax)

 

I think that CA value isn't right. The answer seems more complicated per Fuel Taxes Division - Tax Rates - Board of Equalization. Sales tax in my county is 8.625%.

 

For comparison to Maine, here is an approximation of VA sales and annual property tax:
Firstly, sales tax on cars is going from 3 to 4% in the new law
>>so that's $160 extra sales tax on a Hybrid
(NOTE: Basis for calcs is +$4000 for a Hybrid vs Gaso engine).

After that annual VA property (car) tax varies by locality, but my approx:
2% on first $20,000 (NADA Value) + 5% on the amount over $20,000 (NADA Value)
NADA Value is the Clean Trade Value.

The VA "Hybrid Penalty" thus has two cases:
Case (1) Car Value <$20K - e.g.; Prius c
Hybrid Tax Penalty= $160 sales tax + $80/yr = $960 for 10-yrs
say 30% less w/ depreciation = $670
Add on new $100/yr fee = $1000 + $670 = $1670 10-yr VA Hybrid Penalty (<$20k car)

Case(2) Car Value over >$20K - e.g; Highlander Hybrid
Hybrid Penalty= $160+ $200/yr (first 4 yrs) + $80/yr (next 6 yrs)= $1440 for 10 yrs
say 20% less w/depreciation = $1150
Add on new $100/yr fee = $1000 + $1150 = $2150 10-yr VA Hybrid Penalty (~$35k Car)

The Hybrid Penalty is the extra tax paid to Virgina due to purchase of Hybrid vs. gaso engine version of the same vehicle.

PS- The VA property taxes are increasing with time, thus these value are low in consideration of property tax creep.

 

of course not, because sales taxes just go into the general fund, whereas gas taxes are (supposed to, anyway) destined for transportation projects specifically.

 

It is something like 38 cents plus the 8-9% sales tax which could be about 40 cents

Mike

 

Wow.
If you subtract that + Federal tax = wholesale price and sounds like you are less costly than us.
It makes some sense that high state taxes reduces wholesale price.
One criticism in VA is that the lower gaso tax will just be absored as higher wholesale price.

 

Ok, let me expand on the states with no state inspection. When the owner insures, renews registration on a regular basis, mileage would be recorded but that state licensing authority or insurance company. The state would then be able to determine total mileage to be charged. Think it is not possible, think again. Progressive is currently ad vertising a plug in module called "Snapshot".

All states, regardless how much or how little one drives out of state, would be collecting annual fees from each car owner.

Gas receipts collection are an old fashioned, outdated way of collection mileage info.

So, in summation, regardless if one drives, gas, diesel, hybrid, EV, - if you use public roads, highways, you pay a fee.
Do you or anyone else want to continue driving on the current conditions of our roads? I don't, so I pay a fee to help support rebuilding our infrastructure.

DBCassidy