Are Annual Hybrid/EV Owner Fees Fair?

How many states are running a budget surplus?

DBCassidy

 

Probably none... even Alaska with savings accounts and only 700K residents can't balance its budget. But what does that matter anyway... doesn't the end justify the means?

 

Unfortunately the numbers say otherwise, the increasing gasoline usage and the small number of hybrids and EV's relative to the number of cars on the road.

Right wing taxes hybrids, lowers gasoline tax, eliminates pollution regs. Left wing offers credits for hybrids, raises gasoline tax and increases pollution regs.

This is policy issues, political issues.

If one considers using less oil a national security priority based on the national security danger exemplified by oil wars, oil terrorism, $14T in oil war debt, oil pollution, $4T oil import trade deficit then taxing use of oil to raise revenue to pay for oil use costs to discourage its use would be the pro-American thing to do.

Taxing anything that lowers oil use, as the VA gov, Fox News and oil companies propose, is anti-American.

 

Four words: "Revenue Enhancement" and "Fiscal Cliff" The majority, if not all the states are looking in generate additional income:
- Increasing gasoline taxes
- Increasing tolls
- Increasing licensing fees
-Increasing registration fees
-Increasing sales tax
-Increasing moving violations (tickets)
-Increasing mass transportation riders' fees
- Imposing EV usage fees
- Imposing EV usage fees

In the eyes of state coffers, it means everything. States don't care of "the end justifying the means"

States do care about lining their coffers, especially when the Federal Government is cutting back.

Just, get over your "they are picking on us EV owners" mentality. Maybe, the states, and Federal Government should abolish all tax credits to EV owners.

Be honest, did you actually think EV owners would get off scott free?

Learn to roll with the punches, be happy you are helping to reduce gasoline usage, and most important:enjoy your ride.

DBCassidy

 

Virginia residents - I call your attention to a petition link on Prius Chat to ask Gov McDonnell to VETO the proposed hybrid/plug-in tax in Virginia. Apparently the Gov has the power to "line-item" veto provisions of the bills before he signs it. See Post #46 on the thread below.

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Read more: http://priuschat.com/threads/virginia-transportation-funding-deal.122457/page-3#ixzz2M4Gxo0Qm ​

 

I think its fair, but still not a fan.

 

Adam- I think each state is going to be a different story.
Virginia is a state with no green car incentives, but relatively high annual property taxes.
So compared to other states, the "tax penalty" for buying a green car is higher in Virginia.
Adding $100/yr extra hybrid/plug-in tax to this gets into the realm of "punishment" for being green.

 

Besides how to implement this, many folks, including myself dislike this because it it's a disincentive to buy a more efficient vehicle.

The gas tax should be raised instead.

And yes, there are too many issues w/how to count miles driven outside the state and the big brother aspect if GPS is used. I've driven my Prius to WA state and back before. On one of the trips, I'd did a bunch of sightseeing in and around OR.

While in WA, I went to Canada 2x and Oregon once w/my Prius. With a Lexus HS I'd won a week test drive of, I drove it to Portland, OR and back. I'd also taken other roadtrips between LA and WA state 2x before. I've driven between the Bay Area and Vegas a few times.

One of my friends in WA recently drove across the country, from WA to So Cal, all the way to Florida then via some unknown (to me) route back to WA.

 

I've also heard of some countries charging a tax (road tax?) based upon engine displacement. AFAIK, Singapore does that but I believe it's modeled off some European countries doing so.

BTW, Highest & Cheapest Gas Prices by Country: 2013 Gasoline Prices - Bloomberg and Countries Gasoline Prices Including Taxes
(from Countries - Data - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)) should give some people (who don't know) some perspective about gas prices.

And yep, when I went to Europe for the 1st time in 2010 and stopped in 7 countries, I noticed very few monstrosity class trucks and SUVs being driven by the general public.

 

Maine similarly has the Vehicle Excise Tax, which is based on MSRP and goes 2.4%, 1.75%, 1.35%, 1%, 0.65% and 0.4% each year thereafter. So, over my expected 10 years of Prius ownership I pay an extra 9.15% in tax on the hybrid premium. It would be nice if there were an MSRP adjustment to reflect that the premium is investment rather than wealth, but it's not going to happen. (Well there was a Tea Party referendum option to eliminate years 1 and 2 for hybrid but that was part of a mad-as-a-box-of-frogs scheme to cut VET rates on new cars).

On top of the premium, the VA tax ignores the fact that people pay sales tax on marginal expenses. So, they levy a tax for road use because you aren't paying for gas, and then they tax you on your gas savings when you spend them. Geniuses.

They could easily do a bit of math on purchases and Reg odometer data and move some sales tax around.

 

In a way they do...heavier cars and trucks get lower mileage

Mike

 

At $100, it's probably the cheapest tax I'll pay. Still no justification. I can live with $100 because I have no choice. What's to say that in several years it's not $500 per year?

 

The federal income tax started at 1% when it was first rolled out ....

 

Good data! at some point I may try to figure tax penalty for each state. The only *good* thing about Maine is at least you can calculate the tax penalty. In VA, the property tax is a bill you get in the mail, with some kind of convoluted calculation that varies by locality and vehicle. Now that Virginia is becoming Taxxachusetts, more people will want to be able to caluclate the tax bite before they purchase a car.

 

Mileage tax. each year (assuming your state has an annual inspection), the inspection station plugs into the OBD2 port to gather emissions and mileage driven since last inspection. A tax / user fee would then be levied against the car owner.
DBCassidy

 

I'm a VA resident and we own a 2006 Prius and 2012 Prius Plug-In. We were quite concerned when we heard that the Governor recommended the tax on hybrids, and were equally happy they did not pass.

A VCU professor projected that annual loss of tax revenue from the gas tax to a the average hybrid vehicle is about $25/year. I would not mind paying that for upkeep of our roads; however, $100/year is punitive.

 

As I pointed out earlier, this unfairly penalizes people who drive out of state. And, BTW, as I mentioned, I've driven to Canada a few times when I lived in WA, including doing some sightseeing. Producing gas receipts would be annoying as gasoline is much more expensive there than in the US.

As for OBD2 port, some cars are too old to not have it. Annual inspection? Wah??? Not all states do that. There's no such thing in CA nor WA. Some parts of WA have emissions checks and CA does too but there are some exempt vehicles in CA (
Smog Information
, which includes hybrids ). And CA owners w/non-exempt vehicles don't go in for a smog check until it's past 6 model years old.

 

I'm not sure how it penalizes anyone. The miles you pay for regardless. It's true that you're "overpaying" the gas tax for gas purchased outside the state, but state gas taxes are generally low anyway. Plus, you could have a coalition of states that do this (like the northeast) that could mitigate the effect.
And just because there aren't any annual inspections doesn't mean you can't make them. I actually find this part of the California vehicle code absolutely atrocious. In NJ, if you had illegal mods on your car, burned-out bulbs, etc, that crap would get caught in the inspection, improving roadway safety for everyone. For someone driving a hybrid in California, they could be driving around for YEARS with a burned-out stoplight and no one would even know.

 

John- The Virginia Prius tax is back!!! We Lost the battle, but maybe not the war. We thought we had won, but the negotiating committee put the Hybrid tax back in the Bill at the last minute!!

I strongly suggest you go to NoHybridTax.com

Repeal the $100 Virginia Hybrid Tax NOW!

and sign the Petition.

You may also want to join PlugIn America.ORG and send your comment to the Gov. I already did.

 

The USA was created due to taxation without representation.