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Virginia Transportation Funding Deal

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by wjtracy, Feb 20, 2013.

  1. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    MOMENT OF SILENCE _ PRIUS TAX PASSED 2/23/2013
    We have an apparent deal in VA, including a new "Prius Tax"!

    I don't have all the details yet, but it sounds like Governor McDonnell got much of what he wanted! Gaso sales tax will be lowered to 3.5% on wholesale basis - about the lowest in the country, but indexed to inflation. The article below says the negotiating committee did zing us with a hybrid/alt fuel tax of $100/yr, which would be a huge surprise because it would be a stealth behind closed doors zinger...so I need confirmation. Localities have the authority to give tax relief to hybrids/special fuels but most do not. The extra funding needed for roads come from a sales tax increase, new hybrid tax, and they hope future internet sales tax. I will update this as details emerge.

    Negotiators strike Va. transportation deal - The Washington Post

    EDITS: I took out the 8 repub/2 dem make-up of the negotiating committee as the Wash Post said it is was 5 repub/5 dems (turns out my numbers were correct 8 repub/2 dem). The new Hybrid tax is confirmed. This is not official vote yet so stay tuned. Apparently the Gaso sales tax reduction sunsets in 2015 if the proposed internet sales tax does not happen. See my analysis on Post#5 of this thread.
     
  2. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    This seems like a step backwards, but not as bad as the governors original plan. Changing from a fixed per gallon tax to a percentage tax increases the effects of price spikes. Shifting to sales tax is going to make the state raise sales tax faster if the price of oil goes down. That doesn't sound productive.
     
  3. Scorpion

    Scorpion Active Member

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    This is absolutely moronic. But what to expect form 'Governor Ultrasound'??
    The fairest thing to do with regard to registration fees is to tax the people who actually use the service.
    Virginia citizens who don't own or drive cars are going to wake up to a rude shock with the extra sales tax.

    The fairest formula is MILES DRIVEN X VEHICLE WEIGHT.
    Presumably, DMV already knows vehicle weight based on registration, but miles driven is trickier. It would have to be done with GPS; I know there are privacy issues, but people need to stop being hypocritical......not letting the state of Virginia have it doesn't make sense when you've already given it to Google and Apple.

    Thus, under this formula, a Ford Excursion and a Prius V are both driven 12,000 miles, but the Excursion would pay more.
    Conversely a Prius V driven 20,000 miles a year would be taxed higher than a Prius V driven 12,000 miles.
    Finally, there could be some sort of discount for avoiding congested roads during peak traffic hours.
     
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    When we last lived in N. Virginia, the cars had an annual 'safety' inspection. Reading the odometer would be trivial.

    Bob Wilson
     
  5. iClaudius

    iClaudius Active Member

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    Elect anti-science, religioius nuts who are on the payroll of large corporations and, voila, a tax on fuel efficient cars in a time of $14T oil wars, loss of US mfg base, global pollution disaster from burning oil and $300B per year oil trade deficit.

    As for "who uses the service", oil companies and defense contractors are the biggest users of the government services that keep US 50% less energy efficient than Europe and the resulting spending of $14T on oil and military products to keep the oil flowing. Tax oil companies and defense contractors, the biggest users of the "service".
     
  6. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Looks like we have a new "Prius tax" coming to VA!!

    > I am told it will be up-and-down vote on the whole package. The hybrid/alt fuel tax cannot be removed the package. Fee=$100/yr or $1000 total if you hold car 10-years.

    > My argument against the tax has been: Hybrids already pay extra taxes in Virginia via annual property taxes, given that hybrids cost about +$4000 to purchase. I estimate the hybrid "penalty" in VA is already about $500 - $1000 just in sales + property taxes. (Note that property taxes: we just get a bill in the mail - so I do not have a good way to estimate the hybrid property tax penalty for different vehilces).

    > The other argument is: hybrids do not avoid $100 in taxes. A local enviro. group calculated that a Honda Civic Hybrid saves $18/yr in Fed fuel taxes. If we add in VA state fuel taxes, a Civic Hybrid saves maybe $30 on taxes at the pump. Thus the $100 surcharge is punitive.

    > Keep in mind, as former Virginia resident Bob Wilson has noted, there are VA politics involved. The more populated and democrat-leaning Northern Virginia gets "beaten up" at the state level where repubs have most of the control. So the hidden agenda in this bill is repubs trying to hit Northern VA harder with the tax burden.

    > If you live in Arlington County, you are protected from the higher property taxes and hybrid fees, because Arlington County gives tax relief to hybrids/alt fuels cars. Possibly more localities could do this in the future.

    > I wrote or contacted 4 officials on issue - 2 dems and 2 repubs - not a single one acknowledged my letter or email so far. One of my emails to my local official (repub) was a few weeks before the issue became public. He did not get back to me, but the next thing I hear on the radio the local repubs got together and proposed this hybrid tax. So you can blame me? Hope not.
     
  7. JamesBurke

    JamesBurke Senior Member

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    Mileage gets recorded when you have your emissions testing done in addition to the vehicle saftey inspection.

    WV already has an internet sales tax that you are supposed to pay with your income taxes. Nobody I know had ever heard of it much like the EV tax credit.

    Oh yeah now I remember why I left the DC, MD, VA area, to much like state sponsored slavery or indentured servitude with all the taxes and fees. Very little of my money went to Fairfax's billion dollar government center.
     
  8. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Did you have to put it that way? My tax money did go there. The new complex looks better than the White House and Capitol, just for a county.
     
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  9. chinito77

    chinito77 Member

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    So, I suppose this tax season will not be in my favor? I thought Arlington was a green city, I hope I don't need to pay extra taxes.
     
  10. Scorpion

    Scorpion Active Member

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    True, and no privacy issues there, but what about if the odometer included many miles not driven in the state of Virginia? Like, say, a roadtrip to Florida? Also, I think having some sort of mechanism to know when/where people are driving is useful, as opposed to just the miles.....for example, every mile driven in heavily congested areas during peak hours could count as 'double miles'......since clearly this driving leads to congestion, which costs the state money.....and wouldn't be captured by an annual odometer read.
     
  11. JMD

    JMD 2012 Prius 4 Solar Roof

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    $100 extra a year to drive a Prius. they should tax the cars that omit the largest CO2 by weight and reward the Clean cars Prius and EV. Punish the good guys makes no sense.

    The Prius tax may get taken out and just keep the sale stax increase once it gets negociated.

    Indexing gas tax to inflation. Wow baked in increases. This is truely a sad day in America. Increases taxes is not the solution but lowering expenses is.
     
  12. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Arlington gives tax relief (ie; incentive) for green cars, you are good!
    Prius is a good buy for you due to this, but less so in other areas in VA.
    I am OK because my 2006 is 6.5-yr old so I pay lower tax on it.
    But this is one reason I did not go for a new PiP...can't imagine property tax $$, and as I said above, I cannot calculate property tax either...it's a secret formula.
     
  13. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    I was so depressed about our new VA Prius tax today:(
    Driving around town today I felt like VA Public Enemy#1, and like I got a punch in the gut. Alas, the Democrats stalled the bill passage to Saturday. The Dems want concessions on Medicaid before they allow the Prius Tax. So it looks like tomorrow Saturday we get it.

    Va. transportation plan clears House, stalls in Senate
     
  14. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney EditProfOptInfoCustomUser Title

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    Oh somebody please fight this.

    Pester your Senators and tell them how ridiculous this $100 tax is. Just ask them what they'd say if somebody proposed a flat fee for all drivers. They'd call it unfair for the same reason you call the hybrid fee unfair.

    Tell them that since they won't give you any credit for lowering pollution and increasing economic efficiency (by reducing the gasoline distribution overhead) and keeping more money in the state, you'll now do as much business as possible out-of-state and online.
     
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  15. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney EditProfOptInfoCustomUser Title

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    Automatic indexing is the most sensible budgetary option. It avoids the annual/bi-annual games of political blackmail.

    It seems to me that while alt-fuel tech is more expensive you could just allocate the remaining sales tax from $4000k of each new alt-fuel car to the transportation fund. That would buy time to consider, determine and implementate a fairer solution.
     
  16. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Yes I guess we are going to hear more of this.

    Here is why VA is regrettable compared to OR- Oregon favors green cars and gives $1500 tax credit on purchase, even to hybrids, not to mention $2500-$7500 PHEV Federal tax credit. OR is not proposing to tax Prius hybrids (HEV). VA case is different, it is more punitive to tax hybrid HEV owners who do not get any tax credits, in fact hybrid drivers already face higher annual VA property taxes. Adding $100/yr onto this is a punch in the gut. Not only that, the avoided State + Federal tax due to a hybrid vs. non-hybrid is only about $30-40/yr.

    Possibly this hurts Prius sales in VA. For some reason, I don't even think Toyota understands it, Prius has been very popular in VA, depsite the lack of state/fed incentives.
     
  17. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Moment of Silence Please

    Virginia Enacts the first "Prius Tax"l

    February 23, 201347176[/ATTACH]
     
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  18. JMD

    JMD 2012 Prius 4 Solar Roof

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    Change my bumper sticker to " Virginia is for Taxes"
     
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  19. Don in Alex

    Don in Alex New Member

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    Would it be possible to challenge the fee in court? It sounds discriminatory to me.
     
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