Are Annual Hybrid/EV Owner Fees Fair?

Nope. Gas use has been on steady rise other than small drops due to recession as you can see from the graph.

You had it right with the political, right wing politicians do this kind of crazy stuff.

 

It would be an issue even in other states on or near the West Coast. And not just state lines, but national lines too.

 

So the 40+ MPG VW Diesel would not need to pay extra? A extra tax may be needed in a some point. Then it shold be based on MPG and total miles driven.

 

iClaudius this plot is from an environmental group (Earth Policy Inst) and not US DOE. It does not seem consistent with US DOE data showing 2012 gasoline consumption almost down to 2000 levels. Admittedly it is complex data, and I do not have a good handle on it yet.

 

The graphic posted is from the US Dept of Energy. Hardly an "Earth Policy Inst".

There is nothing complex about gasoline usage, other than the recession, usage has gone up and is still at record levels as the Dept. of Energy graph shows.

It is the No. 1 national security goal for US to reduce oil usage. Anything that helps that is pro-American (Prius, hybrids, EV's etc) and should be encouraged. Anything that works against that goal is anti-American like VA's GOP nut case governor, Fox News etc.

 

given how many counties in CA are not in compliance with federal clean air regulations, i don't see that happening anytime soon.

 

I did not mean to suggest that gasoline consumption was falling. What I meant is that EVs, hybrid, and better fuel economy are having an impact on consumption. So is the high cost I gas, in that driving habits have changed ever so modestly.

Point being, there is not as much gas-tax revenue as one would have expected.

Hence, governments are looking for alternative sources of revenue.

I don't see this as a right wing / left wing thing, I see this as a government thing. Governments like to have money to spend, period.

 

I think what makes this doubly unfair is that VA is lowering the Gas Tax and therefore everybody else using more fuel get a benefit while hybrid owners are asked to pay more. $100 / yr seems way more than the cumulative gas tax the government supposedly loses from more efficient cars compared to regular cars. Sadly, VA is under the influence of Tea Party ideas that oppose progressive ideas such as sustainability, climate adaptation and energy conservation. Since hybrid owners typically support these issues, why miss an opportunity to punish these constituents!

I lease my PIP and so do not get any of the Federal tax credits. I still pay a higher insurance rate for a more expensive car. Still, I expect to save about $500 / Yr in fuel savings compared to my regular car. With the $100 hybrid car charge I would still save about $400 / Yr. I didn't get a PIP because it made financial sense (compared to a regular car) but because I would lower my carbon emissions and fuel consumption by at least 60%. At least nobody can take that away from me!

 

Interesting to drag the Tea Party into this.
Personally, I haven't met a Tea Partier who would favor raising taxes on anything or anyone.

 

To simply slap a tax on to hybrid/electric vehicles does not solve any problems and it won't generate much revenue to speak of that's worth the effort. A fairer vehicle tax system is to tax all vehicles based on a common theme, such as weight or mileage, or a combo of each. Hybrid/electric vehicles will tend to be lighter and smaller and therefore do less damage to roads, while trucks/suvs will be heavier, even if they're hybrids, and should be taxed at a higher rate. Annual inspections, which several states do already would be the way to verify mileage. Hybrid/electric vehicle owners can't expect to NOT pay any road tax and truck/suv owners can't expect they'll escape paying their fair share, which is a higher amount. Look at Europe - they have high fuel taxes and you don't see people commuting in large suv's and trucks as a norm.

 

Governments are generally greedy and stupid.
They tax, tax, tax to raise revenue, but fail to appreciate that when you tax something too much, people start to buy less of it. This, in turn, causes a drop in tax revenue. So they raise taxes some more, and the cycle continues....

The tax should be a use tax, like a toll. Trucks should pay more, light cars and motorcycle less. If people drive less often on certain roads because the tolls are too high, that should mean less wear and tear on the road, so the decreased revenue shouldn't be a problem.

Gas taxes don't take into account vehicle weight, or the roads driven on. A lot of people fill up in one state and do most of their driving in another.

And per car taxes are the least fair of all.

 

It's definitely a bit different over here. I drive into Virginia and Washington, D.C. At least once a week at this rate, and a know a lot of folks who head into VA and DC everyday for work.

iPad ? HD

 

The $7,500 is to offset the current, high up-front cost.on the assumption it will get cheaper. The $100 is to pay for road use. There's nothing wrong with appropriate offsets.

The problem is that it's, like, totally bogus and waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too high.

VA tax = 17.5c/gal.
- 30mpg in a Civic:: $100 = 17142.86 miles

In other words, it's a huge rip-off just on a per-mile basis and completely ignores the other benefits.

VA residents: do not let this scam math happen.

 

You are correct, it was not Tea Party idea, it was just a Republican idea.
Let's give credit where credit is due...and I was born a Republican.

 

A Civic Hybrid (vs. gaso) in Virginia saves about $30/year in Fed + State fuel taxes. No longer of course.
There is no way to change the bill, it is all or nothing.
Dems sorely need the money for the new roads and Metro subway expansion to Dulles they have committed to, so they have to go along with any money they can get. For me my sales tax goes up +1%, I get $100/yr charge on my Prius to pay for projects that have no benefit to me. North Virginia region got approval to further increase sales tax so we get hit harder.

 

I am not a big fan of subsidies for green cars.

However if you are getting a nice subsidy for your Prius or PiP from the Federal and State governments, I do not see how you can complain about some green car road fees to hold to help road taxes even.

Virginia case is different. There are no hybrid/green car subsidies. Therefore we are already paying more taxes (sales + annual property taxes) on hybrids. Now they want to add a further penalty onto that. This is punitive, and if I was a Toyota dealer, I might expect slower sales.

 

It's not just the fuel price/tax that keeps them from driving monster SUV's and dualies- it's common for an American vehicle to cost double it's USA sale price in Europe. So that $48k Yukon that gets 14mpg now costs $96K and will cost them hundreds per week to gas up. There's just not much of an incentive to own a uber-expensive gas guzzler American vehicle in Europe.

 

My complaint is not about the taxes. Personally, I think the taxes are too low as cynical as that sounds. My complaint is with the government being consistent and making logical choices. You may think green car road fees keep taxes even. Others will say green cars don't cause the same damage to the road as a 2 or 3 ton SUV so they shouldn't pay extra. Who is correct? My point is that it doesn't matter. Life is unfair.

Logically, if government needs more money. They should increase taxes. But they're talking about giving me money and then taking some of it back. Some office is being funded to make sure I get the right amount of credit and then another office is being paid to make sure I give back the right amount. How does that make sense? Seems wasteful to me.

All this talk about mileage trackers and DMV checks, all that stuff costs extra to manage. You know what doesn't cost extra? Increasing gasoline sales tax. And the plug in's that use little to no gas? Stop giving them $7500 credit. That sounds so simple to me. Am I missing something?

 

You have good logic, I agree. Actually VA may have increased gasoline tax as well. With this bill, VA has gone into the realm of higher tax states. We have Grover Norquist on our tails, not sure if he lives here, so they reduced gaso tax to 3.5% only until 2015, then it goes back to current levels, and now it is set to a % so now it goes up as the cost of gasoline goes up. Gaso tax stays lower only if US Congress passes internet sales tax.