Are Annual Hybrid/EV Owner Fees Fair?

Maybe it should only apply to pure EV not plug-in/hybrids like the PIP.
The pure EV owners do use the roads- and most of the funds to repair/maintain the roads (supposedly) comes from tax collected on gasoline sales... so the pure EV drivers aren't paying into the road repair/maintenance fund.

On the other-hand- PIP drivers still do purchase gasoline and are contributing to the road repair/maintenance fund- maybe the VA legislature just needs a little education on the differences between PEV's and hybrids?

 

I don't know about your situation, but at the risk of getting political , we ought to brace ourselves for this sort of thing.
Thanks to better fuel economy, drivers are buying less gasoline than they otherwise would.
That means less tax dollars for the government.
The government is looking for ways to make up the difference.

Nothing is certain but death and taxes....

 

They will discourage "alternate fuels" by charging a fee. Just increase the fuel tax if highway/bridge money is required.

JeffD

 

I think it is ridiculous. They should in fact give more incentives like a break in registration fees to encourage the purchase of such vehicles. That would have been far more effective than BS loans the Administration made to the likes of Fisker, et all.

 

It seems the fairest road tax mechanism would be to dispense with the fuel tax altogether (the part associated with road construction and maintenance, anyway) and assess ALL cars a fee based on the number of miles driven in a given year. The more you use the roads, the more you pay for them. As usual, the mechanism to implement such a fee is the sticky problem.

 

1. FAIR is a four letter word and should be struck from civil discourse. What is fair for one is unfair to others.
2. Putting a black box in a car can lead to bad results and misuse by government, insurance companies and lawyers.
3. How do you distribute the revenue when drivers cross state lines?

JeffD

 

I think we can all agree that life isn't fair. Besides, fair is a subjective opinion. A truck driver thinks its fair. These hybrids don't pay their fair share to upkeep the roads. A hybrid driver will think its unfair because their smaller, lighter vehicles don't tear up the roads as much as heavier trucks and suv's.

But if you were to rephrase your question to common sense, then it gets interesting. It makes no sense to give up to $7500 on plug in vehicles to encourage people to buy plug ins and then come back and discourage them by increasing license fees. I know it's the difference between state and federal laws but its still the government contradicting each other. But then again, the government often don't make any sense.

It's a very simple fix, increase sales tax on gasoline. Bit that's political suicide. So yeah, we're going to be seeing these shenanigans in the coming years as CAFE puts stricter requirements on fuel economy.

 

If corporate oil companies weren't allowed to pay zero income tax, gasoline would be priced like it is in most of the world. Having gas cost 2x its current U.S. price would thus double the amount of road tax. Collaterally, with gas costing 2x its U.S. / subsidized price, many folks would drive less, which would mean there'd be less road wear. Maybe the same high fuel costs would force the U.S. to desire and finally build a truely 1st class public transportation system.

Commercial trucks (along with their double or triple trailers) weigh over 20x the weight of most small EV's / phEV's and thus create 20x the road wear. So the fact that truck drivers want to pay less tax based on vehuicle weight is a result of simple selfishness and is not relevant.
.

 

Gas is already $4+/gal here in NY, if it doubled to $8/gal it would trigger all sorts of trickle down increases on every other commodity.
Personally, I wouldn't mind $8/gallon gas- I only consume 3.5gal/week in the PIP.
It would certainly serve to get a lot of the SUV/Pickup idiots off the road.... but at what price?

 

There will no doubt be a period of adjustment. However, there is a ton of FUD. For one, usually about 35-65% of road construction is paid for by the gas tax. Here in Seattle in 2009, it was about 4%. (Honestly, I get this rot all the time because I am The Whipping Boy of All Cyclists.)
Fair is worth at least striving for, IMHO. Perhaps it is the general intent of most laws. And if you are afraid of being monitored, you're living in the wrong era. I'm not talking about OnStar and similar, but that handy pocket internet. See "Dr Seldon, I Presume" in the most recent Economist Social science: Dr Seldon, I presume | The Economist
It does make perfect sense to pay by the mile with some other qualifiers as to vehicle weight etc.

 

This is certainly nothing new. They've been talking about these kinds of fees on Hybrids for at least 5 or 6 years. The recent surge in popularity of EVs and PHEVs is just making them taking another look at tacking on the fees. California has talked about it but has yet to actually implement it.

I would hope that the Virginia legislature has actually taken a good hard look at the number of registered EV/PHEV/Hybrids in the state and calculated what percentage of total vehicles they make up. If less than a few percent, they probably should shelve the idea for now. But then again, we are talking politicians here...

 

and Virginia politicians at that.

I do think it would be a good idea to determine what type of true economic impact this would have on the commonwealth before going down this path. I wonder if they consider the additional sales tax revenue they receive when one purchases a more expensive hybrid over a cheaper non-hybrid economy car. In addition, what about the hybrid vehicles that get lower gas mileage than a gasoline or diesel fueled alternative? Wouldn't those folks be getting hit twice.

 

I agree that requiring a black box in a car that reports your mileage to a government agency would be an atrocious idea. Here in California, we have an annual smog inspection, and there is already a device in your car that tracks your mileage ("odometer"), and that could be read and included with the smog test results. And the fee could factor in the weight of the vehicle. Of course, the problem is that hybrids like the Prius are exempt from the smog test, and the question of a "smog test" is rather irrelevant in the first place for a pure EV like the Tesla or Leaf.

Just tossing out ideas for discussion.

Edit: Hmmm. I hadn't thought about the state lines issue, having grown up in Texas where the nearest state line was about 300 miles away, and now in California 200 miles from the nearest state line. Generally when our family goes to another state, it is by flying. I suppose it is a bit different on the East Coast where one may regularly commute across several state lines.

 

no.

 

Of course in California, the Prius (and I assume at least some other hybrids) are exempt from the annual smog inspection, so mileage would not be recorded by that system. Also in California, our legislature is so used to "borrowing" from the gasoline taxes, which are intended for highway maintenance and repair, that I would imagine any additional funds such as those levied on specific vehicles would not help at all with the terrible state of our highways and freeways. I use the term "borrowing" very loosely, because to most of us, that term involves the expectation of repayment. Never happens. The voters have repeatedly insisted that the road tax portion of the gas taxes go for that purpose, but the politicians always seem to find a loophole. Sigh.......

 

delete

 

In August 2001 Oregon increased their Hybrid Registration from $15 to $30 per year to raise funds for road maintenance. Many of Oregon's 2,000 hybrid owners have reacted angrily to a policy that they claim penalizes them for helping the environment

WOW, $30 is STILL Cheap for registration!!! They need to get angry over something more important.

Besides Virginia and Oregon, I only found Utah with a similar fee.

 

Hello there Remmons.
You can see my views here, as a fellow Virginian:
Virginia Transportation Funding Deal | PriusChat

The answer is yes and no! If your locality in Virginia gives tax relief to Hybrids/alt fuel cars, such as Arlington County, then how can you complain? You cannot, you are good. But most localities in VA do not give tax relief to green cars, instead they tax them heavily already. If your county is like mine, I get charged property tax every year on a new car, based on the price of the car. I cannot imagine property tax on PiP in my area, and now they want to add $100/yr surcharge to that.

Let's say you buy a Camry Hybrid and hold it for 10 years, in my county in NOVA. First you pay about $4000 more for the car, and then you pay $500-$1000 more in sales + property tax, then you pay the new tax another $1000 over 10 yrs. So you are now $5500-$6000 in the hole compared to the gaso Camry. You're probably not going to make this up, in part because you are being penalized by VA (and your locality) for buying the hybrid.

PS- Yes it is a new thing! VA gets the prize for being the first state to penalize Prius owners.
PPS- You get $2500 Fed rebate for PiP and possible Dominion power discount, so your case is a little better than a non-subsidized Hybrid

 

I think that the odometer reading method could work even for cars that don't get the smog check. Just estimate the miles driven per year and have the DMV send it out with your registration renewal (it will have the year start miles and estimated end of year number). You can accept the estimate and pay...or you can go do the DMV or other authorized place and have the odometer read officially if you are over or under by at least 1000 miles, for example. When you sell the car you must have the odometer read and you make a final adjustment. If we are talking about $100 for 12-15K miles it isn't going to matter that much to get an exact reading unless they change the rate. When the car gets sold or scrapped you owe for the total miles minus payments made.

Better yet make the rate you pay fixed at the time each model year car is bought and include the weight of the car and the mpg it gets (to include air quality damage).

Why create a big bureaucracy, GPS black boxes, etc. That is all wasted overhead and privacy concerns.

Mike