PiP/Volt January 7-11 Switcheroo

EV efficiency may be roughly the same for how Jeff N drives. If we look at how devprius drives, we'll see a different story. So will looking at John H's. So, if you take account of all different driving conditions and average them up, PiP EV efficiency will be better. It will also have higher gas efficiency.

Sure it is. If you are going to drive fast, the high density fuel (also lighter) that refuel in a few minutes is better. The battery life will be lower when draining it in 15 minutes. So those precious battery cycles will be even more expensive.

 

Yes. The data is from EPA and they use 29% EV for PiP and 64% EV for Volt. Your EV ratio may vary. However, those ratios are from SAE J1711 utility factor based on the statistics. I think it is a bell curve and some people will be at the ends of the curve. They will be the exceptions and not the rule.

EPA currently uses eGRID 2010 and I think it is really 2007 data. There is eGRID 2012 that uses 2010 data but EPA has not switched over yet. There is about 5% improvement (cleaner) in the electricity so you can factor that in.

 

Which means that data is useful for which is better, on average, over the entire nation, 6 years ago.
It is meaningless for individuals though, especially those that live in the present, or buy/use green energy.

So for the purposes of an individual's comparisons, would you agree, disagree, or have anything to add to my list?

 

Yes, I agree. The last item is really the EV/HV ratio. I think it is the trickiest one to figure out.

I would add that you should consider the kind of miles you'll be driving in both EV or HV mode - City or Highway or both. That can skew the actual emission beyond taking account of just the EV/HV ratio.

 

I agree. Although, I would go further and say the EV/HV ratio is a good first estimate, the driving pattern is more revealing.
For example, someone with a PiP that takes a 500 mile trip once a month and drives 10 miles a day every other day will have approximately 38% EV/HV ratio. A Volt in this case would be detrimental as it wouldn't help the daily emissions and would hurt the monthly 500 mile trip emissions.
However, a person that drives 32 miles a day every day, and doesn't take longer trips would also have approximately a 38% EV/HV ratio in a PiP, but in the Volt that would improve to a virtually 100% EV experience.

This is why I think the individuals driving habits are a far superior measure although they can be difficult to measure.

 

Man the TV talk was priceless. Right when this thread started going to shit in pops some patheticly funny debate about TV size, laying down and car fitment to make grinning and bearing through the last 3 pages worth it. Damn my OCD...

 

you're killing me, when are we getting the weekly comparison? lol

 

while you're at it, change your profile pic and vehicle info

 

with the MPGe (kWh/100 miles) in EV mode the same between the two models it seems like we should understand the difference in CO2 emissions for speeds above 62mpg as one vehicle starts to blend gasoline and the other will expectantly consume more kWh/100 miles.

the statement/observation that the two are equivalent in EV mode may be grossly wrong, since the comparison of EV performance in the above comparison already includes EV > 62mph for one of the vehicles and the other is limited to EV < 62mph.

 

So maybe the difference between you and devprius represents the divergence above 62mph? that seems like a reasonable theory, albeit the delta also includes demands for more than the PiP's EV kW output below 62mph.

 

Great reporting, Jeff.

The emission data includes fuel production upstream emission right? However, the fuel efficiency doesn't include the upstream. It seems we are looking only at the vehicle level.

PiP's vehicle level efficiency is as good or better than Volt for either fuels (broken down). Volt has higher EV ratio so the inflated MPGe will raise the composite figure. It would be a fair comparison if the fuel production losses are included.

 

With the Solar I'm paying around 14 cents a kWh right now (winter). During summer, I was paying about between 10 & 11 cents a kWh. And during Fall it was also around 11 cents a kWh. That's the raw cost of the electricity used during off-peak times averaged out. The numbers look a little different if I divide the total billed amount by the total electricity consumed for the month. In the winter I'm still paying about 14 cents a kWh, but in the summer I can actually earn between 20 and 68 cents a kWh. For fall, I'm paying about 10 to 11 cents a kWh.

These figures don't take into account the $13 a month minimum meter charges that I have to pay for the privilege of being grid-tied. .I won't know the true cost of my electricity until the end of my True-up period, which should be at the end of July. As things stands, for the last 6 months, I've consumed 1618 kWh from the grid and currently have a balance of $150.44. Or about 9 cents a kWh. If you add in the $13 a month meter charge, it rises to 14 cents a kWh. Given the fact that I was paying on average 26 to 28 cents a kWh before Solar, I'm definitely saving money. I should start earning credits again during spring & summer, which will drive the average amount I pay per kWh lower.[/code][/quote][/code][/quote]

 

David (devprius), What would be the net effect if you enlarged your solar production as well as your own off-peak electric consumption with a larger battery? With your summer time peak earnings it seems like the pay off would be increased.

I pull about 400kWh/month charging a Volt, but I have an EV subscription that costs $4/month.

 

I can't expand the system due to the fact that I'm out of usable roof space. The solar leasing company gave us as big a system as they could. The only conceivable way to expand the system would be to replace the current panels with higher wattage output panels, something that the leasing company is unlikely to do given the fact that the system is only 6 months old. The system is a 4.94 Kw DC / 4.31 Kw AC rated system using 26 Suntech 190W panels and a Power One PVI-5000-OUTD-US inverter. As of January 31st, it has produced 3061 kWh. It's supposed to produce at least 5869 kWh for the first year.

I posted pics about the system here: Anyone have solar panels | Page 5 | PriusChat

I'm probably pulling between 65 & 85 kWh per month charging the PiP at home.

 

Originally the system was only going to be 2.47 kW DC, but we re-roofed the house and replaced a couple of vents with low-profile ones that allowed them to design a system twice as big.

 

Can you "lease" your neighbor's roof

We are getting ready to do solar condominiums in Texas, little different utility regs to deal with. The panels within a large solar farm are condo'd out to individual owners for net metering with the owner's home. Makes owning solar generation feasible for folks who don't have a roof, like downtown high rise buildings.