when should you trade in your Prius,before it becomes a money pit?

Some user's report the new pump's work better, other's say they don't work as well. The problem was with the 04-07 models and it seems to have carried over to some of the later Gen2 as there have been user's running the later Gen2 model that end up with the same MIL code: P0A93

To say that the problem has been fixed or corrected, I think that one is going to fall under user's discretion. The new pump has been redesigned, however there are still cases of the pump's failing in some of the later Gen 2 year model's.

2009 Prius Water Pump Failure at 37K miles | PriusChat

Look at the above string, post #9 plainly states "bad inverter pump '09 Prius"

Is the problem fixed, related or what??? That is the $50 question.

There is quite a bit of information concerning the pump recorded here on Prius Chat.

A rather interesting side note is this. Some of the Lexus Hybrid's have the same problem with their inverter's. IIRC, that product is partnered with Toyota. Anyway, here is the link about the Lexus.

Another failed inverter pump.

GS450h - Inverter cooling pump failure - P0A93 - Club Lexus Forums

Also, this one come's to mind. The coolant control flow valve does have a history of failure's on the Gen 2's. What happens is that the valve will get stuck over time, which will generate a MIL code which in turn lights the CEL. It is something that is only covered under the 3/36 warranty and tends to go out after the warranty has expired. MIL code: P1121 Part # that is giving the problem: 16670-21010. The repair consists of replacing the valve with a new one, along with one gallon of Super Long Life Coolant as well as labor for R&R and bleeding of the cooling system. Toyota charges $300 for parts and labor. Again, it is something that has occured often and has been reported quite a few times here on Prius Chat. IMO I would consider this item to also be a "persistant part failure".

Ron

 

It seems to me that the biggest threat to a Prius becoming a "money pit" is when an owner relies on a Toyota dealership for maintenance and repair services. PC is full of examples of service departments quoting unnecessary and duplicative services for older Prii. If a Prius owner can DIY the basic services, they seem to go for 200-300k miles, and with a bit of DIY HV battery refurbishment, maybe 500k. Depreciation is not the "money pit" and if DIY maintenance is not the "money pit", the next candidate on the list is gasoline.

A 25,000 annual mile Prius is going to use about 500 gallons of gasoline, $1500-$2000. Way less than the 22mpg average, but still an opportunity. PiP users are reporting 80.6mpg, not including electric fueling, which is most likely in the $120/yr range. All the other expenses should be on par with the regular Prius.

 

You meant $1200 for 25K miles for the PIP, right? If it was only $120 per year I would buy that car tomorrow afternoon after work.

 

I was just talking about the electric costs. ~ 100kWh per month at ~ $0.12/kWh .

I got a better deal, $50/year for unlimited charging, so I got a vehicle that is letting me get by on almost ZERO gasoline usage.

 

I don't mean to pick a nit, but..... not if you drive 25K miles per year which was the comparison you made with the standard Prius. Depending on the climate and availability of a charging station, you will still need to use quite a bit of petrol in 12 months if you drive 25K miles in a year. The PIP requires 3 hours to recharge with 120V, right? So you can only recharge the PIP only once during the day with 120V or a total of roughly 30 EV miles for 24 hours with six hours of charging time.

It might even be fewer EV miles per day for some if their employers won't allow them to plug in like mine refuses to, even though I offered to pay them for the juice. They don't want the hassle of calculating my share of the bill. And my company thinks it's progressive and green - hogwash.

Do you still have the 2007 Prius? If not, you should update your vehicle to the 2012 PIP.

 

My daughter is driving the 07 now. I didn't get the PiP because it didn't have the EV capacity to go 25k/yr, as you noted above.

 

Okay, then which car did you buy to replace the Prius that your daughter is now driving?

 

a Volt, although it didn't replace the Prius, the kids mainly drove it. The Volt replaced an LX450, which is now retired to just ranch duties.

 

Gotcha. Thanks. I was considering leasing a Volt but as I mentioned my employer won't let
me recharge at work.

If used 2011 Volts are priced for about 15K in 2014, I might buy one then to replace the 05.

 

You might find one in that price range, depending on what happens with the tax credits for PHEVs. When the tax credits phased out for the regular Prius it seemed to slow down the depreciation rate for the used ones.

 

Are you still on your original hybrid battery?

 

Yes.

 

I will buy each and every $8+k (I'm guessing) Prius with a bad pack for $4500. And by each and every I mean a couple more.

 

In terms of the OP's question, it depends on how well you can wrench. I have a craptacular 92 Camry with 250k miles, and that struggled to surpass $500/year in maintenance costs when I drove it 15k+ miles/year. That said, I do everything myself. I imagine someone would have paid four to eight times what I do for the same repair/s.

 

I actually appreciated that advice a great deal and did not find it self-centered at all. I tend to be a maximizer, researching until my head spins. Research on human behavior (sorry, if this is off-topic, but it does relate to buying cars) indicates that maximizers tend to be less happy than people who, in the end, decide by what makes them happy. The research was not done specifically about car purchases but about all major life decisions. When comparing both groups of people, the ones who figure in the smile factor beat themselves up less when they make a bad decision.

Any car can be a lemon, no matter what the reputation of its cohort. If you go with something that makes you smile, then your total number of happy days is increased. Life is short. So now, my decision is whether to go with a Gen II Prius that is certified but is a color that makes me frown in favor of reliability that does make me smile.

 

Gen 4 will be in the 2015 model year which will release in December 2014. However it is always wise to wait a year for them to get the kinks out. Just a FYI. Although the details of the car is under wraps speculation is the Hybrid will get about 70 MPG and have a sportier look. All wheel drive will be an option for the snow belt drivers. The PIP will have an extended range and more standard options. Possible wireless charging.

 

Todays Prius Hybrid if purchased in a CARB state has a 10 year or 150,000 Mile warranty. Toyota pays for all the parts and labor and you get anew battery. I can say that I tend to never keep my cars over a decade. My last car I had 7 years with 105,000 Miles.

To replace a traction battery with a new one is about $3,200 + labor. A rebuilt one with a guarantee is about $1,700 +labor. A Salvage one is about $500 + labor.

The Prius has a reputation of being a dependable and reliable car with low cost of ownership. Many drive it over to 100,000 miles. Much with just routine maintenance. The other benefit is the car is very clean out of the tailpipe and that is a reward everyone can benefit from. It is great with it's cargo space and plenty of passanger room in the rear. Great all around car and wondeful investment. The sweeet spot for buyers and sellers in 3 years and 60,000 miles for resale value and a good dependable car that can go another decade.

I'm averaging 62 MPG.

 

My Prius is over 8 years old and is approaching 105,000 miles. So I have about 1.5 years/45,000 miles to go on the warranty. (F8L replaced his SEVERAL YEARS BEFORE the warranty expires.) As for repair cost, I've had to replace the coolant inverter pump at just over $600 in 2009, (but Toyota reimbursed me 2 years later); had to have the steering repaired TWICE (over $2000.00 in 2010; dealer absorbed cost for the second replacement needed 6 months later. But it looks like I MAY get another reimbursement from Toyota due to the latest recall). Other than those, it has just been normal 5,000 mile interval service, and 2 tire replacements. So is it still a "money pit" if you are reimbursed 2 years after the expense?

BTW, I have a car that does NOT use one ounce of gas, NOR is it electric - it is a Jetta TDI.

 

I think one persons idea of a money pit may differ from another. My idea would be "when does the car get undependable?" Like stuff breaking every month. Major parts, engine, transmission, shouldn't be an issue for anything less than 200K miles if maintained properly. I've had some cars up to 300K miles, and then it was more of an issue of them biodegrading (rusting and dry rotting) than the engine/transmission. I've also had cars with 30K miles on them you couldn't go down the block without a breakdown.

I will say though, compared to my other car, which is now 13 years old and has 120K miles on it, my Prius does spend more time in the shop for repairs. Combination meter, body parts, water pumps, recall, recall......

 

My take on a money pit is a car that costs more to repair over time than to replace.
A new Prius is say $22,000, and lasts 15 years. That is works out to $120 a month, or about $1500 every year as a break-even point.

Answer to OP: never