PiP/Volt January 7-11 Switcheroo

The pip SHOWS the message every time and has a confirm button to dismiss it immediately, but will actually go away on its own after a few seconds (maybe 5?)

 

This is an interesting thread. I, like many, agonized over the Volt/PIP decision. Sometimes it just boils down to the kind of driving you do and access to chargers. In WI there are no public chargers. My trips are either local (under 5 miles one way-small town) or over 105 miles RT. So I use the ICE a lot for any out of town trip. So for me the PIP was best. If I had a 40 mile RT commute, or I if I had access to cheap charging stations, then the VOLT wins. Advantage of the PIP is that the lowest mileage you are going to get with any distance is 51 MPG. Not too shabby. Too bad the comparison is not with the AT model--a little better parity on the tech side.

 

Had a similar day yesterday but was able to get some partial charging. Had the ICE run a couple times, not enough to get warmed up much each time though. This was my college age son driving while on winter break. He's killing the stats, but it's his car when he graduates later this year.




just under 23kWh at the wall for charging.

 

Assuming 12.9 kWh/charge (per EPA), you got 43.1 MPGe.

Gallon equiv (from electricity) = 12.9 kWh / 33.7 kWh = 0.3828 gallon(e)
Total Gas consumed = 0.3828 gallon(e) + 1.88 gallon = 2.2628 gallon(e)

Total efficiency = 97.5 miles / 2.2628 gal(e) = 43.1 MPGe

Efficiency Breakdown:

Electricity efficiency = 33.7 kWh / (12.9 kWh / 36 EV miles)= 94 MPGe
Gas efficiency = 61.6 miles / 1.88 gal = 32.8 MPG

 

Your ICE didn't warm up after 12.1 miles of driving? You did 33.6 MPG on gas miles.

PiP only need 0.03 gallon to warm up ICE. You used 11 times more gas than that so I would think it finished warming up.

You did good in electric miles, getting about 127 MPGe (15% charging loss added). You must have stayed under 60 mph. Charging 20.8 kWh into battery must have taken about 24 hours on L1 charger. L2 would cut it down by half.

I thought a full charge for you is 10.6 kWh. So, 20.8 kWh is pretty much two full charges, isn't it?

 

Its a 2012 so 10.4 is pretty much the full charge and 20.8 pretty much represent two full charges. The ICE was run 4 times during the day, average about 3 miles each, just before sitting at the charge stations. Three L2 charge sessions during the day, a little over 1 hour each. Normally get about 43mpg on the ICE for anything longer than 5 miles. Some driving over 60mph, probably 50 miles or so out of the total.

 

64.6 MPG on gas miles and 130 MPGe on electric miles.

For 142 EV miles, I think Volt would display 7.6 gallons saved. The reason is simple, GM compares it to a 18.8 MPG gas car (electric miles divided by gallons saved).

 

great detailed first hand info especially on mpg here.

but to those comparing pip vs. volt, there are other things to consider (ride, cargo space, seating, tech features, reliability etc)

 

I've noticed that same thing. In the PiP my distance to work is 46.0 miles. In the Volt, it's 45.3 miles. I'd have to measure the actual distance with a GPS receiver to see which odometer is off. Or, as I suspect, which one has the least amount of error. Our minivan has a worse error. It's off by 4.5%. It'll say we've traveled 100 miles when we've actually traveled 104.5 miles.

 

Todays commute to work: 45.4 miles total. 35.4 EV miles, 10 gas miles. 0.26 gallons used.

 

For the purposes of this swap, I don't think an Advanced model PiP would've made much difference. For me, it was more about seeing what the overall efficiency was for each car. Jeff has been getting numbers above and beyond what I get, which goes to show me that I'm not nearly as efficient as I could be. Driving the Volt like I drive my PiP shows that I can get numbers comparable or better, but it requires charging more often at work, something I can't always do. In the PiP it's way easier to get a full, or nearly full charge, at some point during the day.

 

What does Google Map say?

Do you have the overall figures so far?

 

Jeff, your composite efficiency is 76.71 MPGe. I think that's a record, even beating Priuskitty

Electricity: (32 kWh * 1.15) / 33.7 kWh= 1.092 gallon(e)
Gasoline: 455.4 miles / 94 MPG = 4.845 gallon

Total composite fuel economy: 455.4 miles / 5.937 gallon(e) = 76.71 MPGe

If this is your car on Voltstats, you are averaging 63.2 MPGe with 63.6 EV ratio? PiP is doing better for you with half the EV ratio!

 

You cannot use the MPGe on voltstats.. its just based on the ratio using the EPA data.. Jeff is mroe efficient in EV than EPA suggests.

 

Jeff and I have swapped our cars back. Here's my thoughts on this little experiment we did:

Before I test drove a Volt (Jeff's, in fact), I had a very negative opinion of the Volt. I thought it was a cheap and lame attempt by GM to jump on the Hybrid/Green car movement. I envisioned a cheap interior, lackluster performance, lousy creature comforts, and sub-par technology. GM's less than stellar reputation, and the hit piece that they commissioned a while ago that said a Hummer was better for the environment than a Prius made me very wary of the Volt. Then I sat in Jeff's. And test drove it. And now I've spent the better part of the work week commuting in one. My opinion has definitely changed. It's not a bad car. In fact, it's a pretty good car. The navigation system is pretty good, certainly better than the one in the base PiP. Gorgeous display screens. They both have their pluses and minuses when it comes to displaying certain driving info. The PiP is better at some stuff, and the Volt better at other stuff. The Volt has better granularity when it comes to displaying gallons used, and more easily separates out EV vs Gas miles. The PiP on the other hand, gives you a much better idea of how much battery or engine power you are using, has an instantaneous MPG readout, and give you a minute by minute or 5 minute average MPG reading.

If I could fully charge at work everyday, the Volt would win hands down in the fuel efficiency department. I'd burn a little more than half a gallon each day. That's way better than what I can do with the PiP. Even if I can only charge at home, the Volt still turns in some great MPG numbers. Not quite as good what I can get with just one charge in the PiP, but still pretty close. While my charging ability at work is sub-par, I can get a decent charge in a relatively short amount of time, which makes using the PiP for errands during lunch a lot more viable, especially if I can get a charge in the afternoon for the ride home.

Given my driving habits, (in)ability to fully charge at work, trunk space issues, rear seating, and the need to go on long trips, I still feel that the PiP is a better choice for me. Jeff feels that the Volt is still the best car for him. But the two cars are still fine cars.

Now, if I had the ability to fully charge at work, especially at L2 rates, then an EV would be best. What EV that might be is probably best left for another topic.

 

Note the 2013 Volt has improved instrumentation over Jeff N's 2011. It has instantaneous kw draw display, as well as display of kwh used since last full charge.

I don't understand why anyone considers this an advantage for a PiP over a Volt. If you can plug in the PiP, presumably you'd also be able to plug in the Volt. Both have a 3.3 kw charger so they charge at the same rate. Even if you can fully charge the PiP, while the Volt would only be 1/4 full, in both cases you are gaining ~10-12 miles of EV driving. It's not like the Volt prevents you from driving away if the battery isn't full, or that it isn't worth plugging it in if you can only charge for an hour. You get roughly the same benefit as you would with a PiP no matter how short the time, the only time I wouldn't bother is if I had enough battery to get home on EV only. And if you have managed to snag a spot, you gain considerably when the Volt can continue to charge while the PiP is already full, even if you are only going to be able to 1/2 charge or 2/3 charge the Volt by your departure time.

The Pip has cost advantage, a fifth seat, and more trunk space. It's more efficient on very long drives. But if you don't need a fifth seat, and have a commute in the 15-85 mile range (or double this if work charging available), the Volt is going to win on efficiency. I had 90% EV driving ratio in my first year, 99Mpge composite, with 24-30 mile per day typical driving, far better than what is achievable in a PiP.

 

i think the reason it's an advantage is because if you have limited charging opportunities, the prius delivers better fuel economy on an empty battery. so while in both cases you are getting 10 miles of driving, with the prius, if you don't get them, you're getting 50 mpg on that drive, while with the volt, you're only getting 40. that's all.

 

But that's the CS MPG basic advantage of the PiP, not an advantage in the battery having less capacity. Usbseawolf, in particular, always harps on "charging time" being a PiP advantage, when really it's a disadvantage. Any opportunity charge in a PiP can also be done in a Volt, and in fact helps you more because of the greater MPGe dropoff in a Volt between CD & CS modes. And if you have snagged a charge spot, any time sitting there not charging because you are already full is wasted opportunity (assuming free/reasonably priced charging).

A smaller battery's advantage lies in initial cost & cargo space & weight. Charge time from empty to full is not an advantage; adding 2.8 kwh to a 4.4 kwh battery hasn't helped you any more than adding 2.8 kwh to a 16 kwh battery.

 

I am curious what the return commute looks like. Did you ever have a chance to get a full charge at work and do the reverse of the 45.4 mile drive?

I'm trying to understand why you only got 35-36 miles EV on the morning commute and if by chance you are getting closer to 55 EV miles on the return trip with a full charge (45 average). I can get 6 miles per kWh on my east bound commute and 3 miles per kWh on my west bound commute.