My year with the Volt. Costs and Comparisons

Yup, the cost of electricity is volatile from state to state. One has to consider their driving+charging pattern as well as the cost of both fuels. The size of the battery has little to do with the efficiency and emission. I would like to see more Volts in Raleigh, NC because it makes sense there.

Generally, the cost of electricity is high in the states with clean electricity. This means, if you want to be clean running on electricity, it is going to cost you. That's why a clean (and efficient) running gas engine is so important, especially in the states with dirtier electricity. Here is the emission of PiP, Leaf and Volt in all states. The data is from EPA and it assumes PiP with 29% EV and Volt with 66% EV. YMMV.

 

Understood. Just pointing out that cost is not the only thing to consider. The hallmark of green car is high in efficiency and low in emission (tailpipe and upstream). Interesting that you put national issue above global issue.

Our oil import is down to 25%. About 1/3 of that 25% is from OPEC countries so about 9% of our import oil is from OPEC.

We should consider emission (generated locally) when trying to eliminate 9% oil import from OPEC. The cost of health care and social benefit have to be balanced out as well.

 

I take it that you don't have the option to purchase lower cost electricity, perhaps on a separate meter or TOU plan. It probably doesn't make economic sense for a small battery where it often does for a larger battery.

A quick survey of NJ electric rates indicates TOU rates for off-peak are about half of on-peak, but the same survey also seems to indicate your $0.22/kWh rate may be the top tier of a tiered rate plan as well. Can you share an electric bill?

6.43 cents per mile seems higher than the regular gas only Prius.

If Voltdriver pays the same fuel prices as me, his cost per mile would be 1/2 cents. Electricity would cost him $50 and $72.89 for gas for a total of $122.89.

 

John, I have shared a pic of my utility bill in the past. I have even posted a graph of my annual consumption. You can search them if you like.

A regular Prius would surely cost more per mile. $3.7 per gallon divided by 50 miles = 7.4 cents per mile. That's if it gets 50 MPG with the many short trips I make.

BTW, the comparison between PiP and Volt did not take account of the price difference (about 20 cents) between premium and regular gas.

You may be more accurate than my previous post. I rechecked the news I scanned through. It said oil import will be 25 years low (at 40%) by 2014. So, it makes sense that it may be closer to 50%.

However, my point is still valid. About 17% of our import is from OPEC and the raise in domestic production will reduce it further. Hybrids and plugins will definitely help, I am not denying them. I am just saying there are other issues (emission, health care cost, etc...) to consider as well.

With 164,000 miles on 2006 Prius, I have saved 2,313 gallons over my previous compact car. I am continuing to do that with PiP. It saves even more gas with the more efficient gas engine and the plug electricity displacing 40% of my miles (mostly short trip MPG killer).

I agree that we need to "get off" oil. To me, getting off means oil becomes the minority of our energy sources. Then, our economy won't be dependent on the price of oil. I believe it will be impossible to eliminate oil usage because we are also dependent on itss by-products.

 

a personal observation concerning fuel source diversity is that with the capacity to go 100% EV for extended periods of time, I can choose WHEN to buy gasoline and avoid peak pricing like California experienced earlier this year. Having the flexibility to refuel over the course of 5000+ miles per tank mitigates most of the cost delta between demand fueling 50mpg and opportunity fueling 38mpg.

 

The electricity equivalent energy difference between 50 MPG and 37 MPG is 8.8 kWh. That can recharge PiP almost three times.

Have you figured out the amount of electricity you used to lug that gas engine, gas tank, radiator, etc around? I don't mean it in a bashing way. Have you seriously thought of it?

If your goal is 100% EV or close to it, BEV without that overhead, may be a better option.

PHEV has two fuels so it is best to use both efficiently with equal opportunity.

 

For me, any additional electricity doesn't cost me any more, so I don't think about it.

I will probably add a BEV to my garage, replacing the Gen 2 Prius.

 

Enjoy it while it lasts. I don't think it'll be sustainable, so factor that into your long-term plan.

 

Had that discussion with the electric provider. The EV charging program seems to have legs and is probably going to be expanded. San Antonio has a similar program and Houston now has a provider, TXU, offering "free nights" rate plans.

Inexpensive gasoline is probably not the sustainable component.

 

That is just you not understanding..

The gas engine is my insurance for longer trips and emergencies. I also have both fire and collision insurance and I don't feel it is best to use both efficiently and with equal opportunity.


Saving 10% of the vehicle weight saves about 2-3% of the energy in a car with regenerative braking, and 5-6% in a car without regenerative braking. In contrast, having the ICE allows me to use all of my battery range because I don't have to switch to an ICE car for fear of running out of battery. I'd estimate that saves me more than 2-3%.
That is one reason why the daily actual EV milage on the Volt and leaf are nearly the same.

I track my data pretty closely. If I had bought a leaf instead of my Volt, I would have used 29 gallons more of gas since Oct 2011, i.e. more than doubled my gas usage.

If I Pip had been around in Oct 2011, and had I had bough a PiP instead of a Volt I would have used over 100 gallons more gas, i.e. nearly 4x as much gas.

40Mile AER with a range extender was chose based on studies on how much people drive. The PiP may be good for the small number of people in the low-end of the driving spectrum.

 

I understand that, like a spare tire. When is it too little or too much? Roadside repair kit? A donut? A full spare? Why not two full spares?

It is my belief that if your PHEV is getting 97% EV, BEV would be better than PHEV. Unless you cave into the fear (range anxiety) or your household is not multi-car.

You think gas engine, gas tank and all the associated components weights only 378 lbs? I think the gas engine alone weights almost that.

Dropping the gas powertrain would increase the EV range and the reduced weight will allow other components to be lighter (and still ace crash test) -- basically a compound effect. 2013 Leaf gained 14% gain by reducing 170 lbs with other optimizations.

How many more kWh did you consumed? When we have both the kWh and gallons, we can discuss further -- is it a worthy trade.

According to EPA, PiP covers 29% of the miles in EV. C-MAX Energi would cover additional 19%. Volt would cover additional 18% over C-MAX Energi.

PiP has the largest cargo volume and it starts to shrink going to C-MAX Energi and disappearance of the 5th seat in Volt. Assuming people buy the plugin with their needed EV range, PiP has the largest market.

 

Unclear just reducing the weight by removing the engine allows for lighter components and acing the crash test.. the engine's mass and structure may help in the frontal crash test, that is not where the car do poorly.

Mostly likely that was other optimizations .. not the weight. If I take a passenger I don't expect to loose much range at all.. a leaf + passeger would be the same weight as old leaf.

1514kWh to reduce 112 Gallons compared to my estimate with the PiP. (Assuming 11 miles EV and 49mpg)
Since I pay for wind power, go ahead and compare all you want. Every gallon used is a waste from my view.

You have that backwards, and are using percentages incorrectly.

Assuming most people but the plugin with their needed EV range, PiP has the smallest market.
(29% of drivers), Energi has a market of 48% of drivers, Volt has 66% of drivers.
So the volt's potential market is 2.27 times the potential market as the PiP. Sure you can discount it a bit for the missing 5th seat, but its still covering the needs of more drivers.

 

2012 Leaf weights less than Volt and it uses less electricity per mile. 2013 Leaf should be 29-30k Wh/100mi. 2013 Volt is at 35 kWh/100mi.

For Volt to PiP comparison, are you using 35 EV miles and 40 MPG for Volt?

Regarding the potential market of the plugins, a midsize with full cargo capability has more potential market share than a compact 4 seater or one with raised cargo floor. Someone that needs 10 EV miles for city traffic commute and 5 seats is not going to pay more for a compact 4 seater just because it has 38 EV miles.

 

Lest you forgot, this is PC, not an exclusive Volt forum. Please keep ot civil.

Thank you,

DBCassidy

Disagree with you. USB knows the issue with using the ICE. Prius uses it in the utmost efficient manner. The Volts' use of the ICE is like an after thought or a "band-aid" approach.

DBCassidy

VoltDriver is happy with his Volt - more power to him. I am very happy with my Prius.

DBCassidy

 

GM clearly stated they would postpone the remainder of their custom-designed engine work for the sake of delivering a reliable engine quickly & affordably. That's why there's a variant of the Cruze engine used now instead.

Sure, something more efficient could be delivered, but at what cost? A specialized engine would increase the price of the vehicle. That could require compromise of what was already delivered to accommodate it too.

That's what actually raised concern, resulting in the not-so-civil exchanges of posts upon rollout. Prius has already achieved that aspect of efficiency and can now focus on battery enhancement... which again causes the types of responses we're seeing.

The solution was thought to be exchanges of detailed data. So far, we've had mixed results. It ruffles feathers of some and intrigues others.

 

It is not about just having an efficient engine. The design has to provide opportunities to use it when it makes sense, even if that means blending to provide the best of both.