tax per mile

Taxes as a percentage of income is at a 75 year low, you think you are paying a lot of taxes now, it's nowhere the percentage your parents paid in 1955 and that was a pretty good year. With the current condition of our roads you must drive on the only new roads in the U.S., roads in my area are cash starved as well as being in lousy shape. Oh and by the way you have not increased the number of jobs in the last 3 decades of decreasing taxes, unless you name is Rupert Murdoch.

 

That is only if you happen to be rich or ignore payroll taxes. Payroll taxes are taxes.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/1000875_Tax_Fact_02-13-06.pdf

You will notice particularly that the poorest, those at half median income have had the tax burden fall much more heavily on them. Guess who is going to pay a higher percentage of their salery on a huge new gas tax? A small oil tax, fine. A big new tax needs to take care of some of these folks by reducing payroll taxes.

 

So you want to give more of your money to gov who cannot manage to keep your roads paved and in good shape.

Why back the losing horse. Think of it this way. If my brother cannot pay his mortgage and his financial life is in disarray from 1950 to prersent what would be the best thing for him? Give him more money is not the sollution. I would give the check book to his spouse maybe she can manage better.

Gov spends like drunk sailors. Why give them more.

 

The answer is give the responsibility of the roads to private companies. In Orange County California we have a toll road route 73. All managed by private funding. The best roads ever.

 

This is a great thread for revealing the vast difference in the purpose of a "gas tax";
1. Some think the purpose is to raise revenue
2. Some think the purpose is to raise revenue primarily or entirely for roads
3. Some think the purpose is to change our driving behavior
4. Some think the purpose is to change our transportation infrastructure

All realize the interconnect between all four, but with very different priorities. Here are my priorities: 2, 1, 3, 4. My Reasons-Minimize externalities but avoid using taxes primarily as a social tool. Government Politics get very corrupt when one party or group puts it's moral direction into economic policy. What's your priorities and why?

 

Dont we have enough taxes? In IL gas is taxed on percentage, the higher the price, the more taxes collected. It sure doesnt go to the roads. Just like the Lottery was supposed to go to schools, which it doesnt.

When the Government starts being responsible with the money and actually using it for its intended purpose, and not siphoned off on other bills, and projects, and other nonsense, then will a tax like this do any good, until then its just cash for the government to waste on something else.

 

The reason why the USA left Great Britain was over taxes. That same tradition is American today. Nothing upsets me more than giving my hard earned money to an organization that wastes money. I pay taxes but I take every opportunity to Vote NO to any tax increase. I suggest everyone do the same.

 

I'm satisfied to look at results, 50% more energy efficient than US and due entirely to government policies to achieve that goal. With oil 70% transportation related, it is clear that the gasoline tax combined with the mass transit was key in that acheivement.

 

Short answer. No. We went to war for oil 30 years and never raised taxes to pay for it and we have a $14T debt as a result. Oil should pay for the cost of it's use and gasoline tax is a direct way of doing that. A per barrel oil tax would be more complete but a gasoline tax covers 7% of it.

 

I rather have the gov print money than raise more taxes. We had no choice about war our country was attacked in the World Trade Center. That was burden was shared by many countries. Raising taxes is not a solution it is a problem. The fact is the average American has inadequate retirement savings, debt they cannot manage, many have negative net worth, the Great Recession left many jobless or underemployed, state colleges raise prices greater than inflation and 1 in 5 Americans is on some form of public assistance and you want to raise taxes. Please. Even Obama wants to only raise taxes on the top 1%.

 

Patrick Henry made a speech to secede from Great Britain and start the revolution war because Britain was taxing us. Quote "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! — I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"

 

You don't balance a budget by taxing people and corporations that are financially strapped. That will put a delicate economy in a tailspin. You balance a budget by cutting unnecessary expenses and exercising financial responsibility. Gov is just not smart enough to cut expenses. Many bills have pork or agreements to fund projects that are not needed. Why for the sake of sanity would I give gov more money.

 

Nice, so you ignored the eia data that said that the EU increased consumption faster than the US since Reagan That's a very long time. Please check out he graphs again.

Why did I use 1980 to start? Well that is where the easy data starts, but in 1981 the US finally removed oil price controls and let oil prices float with the world market. Its the US policies versus Europe before that, oil price controls, huge interstate project, poor infrastructure in most of the country for mass transit that set up the US using much higher oil per capita. Its really bad to confuse the high tax rates now in europe for things like good infrastructure, lower gdp, and WWII for setting up much lower consumption in the 70s.

Again look at the consumption graphs. The very high gas taxes of today can't be the reason.

 

Checked and still showed Europe is still 50% more energy efficient than US by every measure, per capita and per GDP dollar.

Gas tax a keystone of Europe's energy efficiency program.

 

We should certainly shift taxes to the of top income earners and corporations who are largely untaxed percentage wise vs. average wager earner who sees all his income taxed. 50% of US income goes untaxed at the top end.

Look at the successful policies from 1993-2000 where US ran budget surpluses, economy boomed and jobs were at a record. That involved tax increases.

But specific to this thread and gasoline tax, we should increase the gasoline oil taxes to cut consumption and pay for it's costs to date, at least the $14T in debt run up by the 30 years of oil wars for which we borrowed money vs. raising "Patriot Taxes" to pay for the oil wars.

 

Read the charts I gave you in the links, apologize they didn't transfer the first time I copied them again and they are functional again in the above message.

Europe had more of a lead in 1980, before taxes were raised to the crazy levels they are today. Europe since then, that is while the crazy fuel tax rates have gone in, have increased consumption by 46%, the US by 12%. If your thesis is it is these extremely high taxes that did it, why did it happen before the taxes got in place?

EU -27 uses about 68% of the Oil the US does in proporation to GDP. It has much lower oil use per capita, about 45%. Trends are US oil consumption is going toward European levels but slowly. A long recession with continued high unemployment in Europe (10.7% eu-27 n0vember) will increase Europe's lead again. I prefer a recovery in Europe to lower oil consumption, but hey I care more about people than oil consumption. We should look at all the lessons of europe, and not just focus on single statistics.

Here's a forbes article on why gas taxes should be raised. My objection is to raising them to the really high british levels.
Should We Raise The Gas Tax? - Forbes

 

I could be wrong. Trust me I realize I could be wrong.
But there is something in my gut that just doesn't like the idea of taxing those who have chosen more efficient vehicles.

It's "almost" what I did not like about Cash for Clunkers. When cash for clunkers was going on? My 92 Honda Accord (which was nearly a clunker)....just barely did not meet the qualification. It was just a little too new...and a little too efficient.

So even though I listened as people with far less efficient vehicles that they had driven inefficiently for years benefited by suddenly being able to get increased value for them. I felt I was being "punished" for NOT driving the 1988 Ford Taurus and instead driving the marginally more efficient 1992 Accord.

So now those that have sacrificed more money into initial purchase, to get electric vehicles and hybrids are going to be penalized for choosing efficiency?

I can't argue that Hybrids and Electrics (obviously) use less or no gas, thus do not contribute to road maintenance at the same level or rate as pure ICE vehicles.

But I just don't like the idea of taxing or penalizing those who have made a decision, for whatever reason, to drive a more fossil fuel efficient vehicle.

It may pass the public funding, and logic "test" but it just doesn't pass my personal "gut" test. It doesn't feel right.

Keep in mind, I say this while living in Oregon, and driving a 100% ICE vehicle.

 

That's how history is seen today, but it ignores the 'without representation' part of the rallying cry from those days. It really was about not getting a say in how the Empire was run. If the colonists had elected representation is British parliament to give them a say about taxes, they probably wouldn't of had a problem with them.

 

Comparing EU to America is no comparison. For one thing we have a vast country, you could fit all of Europe on the US and still have room. For a lot of people public transportation is either not available, or very inconvenient in that it can take twice as long to travel from point A to point B and they still need to drive a portion of the trip just to get to a station.

If gas were to be taxed to $15 a gallon, the Great Depression would become a very distant memory as there would become an even greater depression since people would be so strapped buying gas just to get to work that they would have no money left to spend on anything. One of the things that I believe that led up to the housing collapse was due in part by the high gas prices. Those who had mortgages they could barely afford(and should never have had one to begin with), suddenly had negative balances in order to pay the mortgage because of the increase of fuel costs and related downhill price increases on goods. So they had to choose between getting to work and food, or paying the mortgage. Sure there is much more to all this, but it did have an impact!

Back in 2003 I bought an F350 Dually Diesel to replace an F150 that got 13 MPG. Diesel at the time was much lower than gas, I could fill the tank on the F350 for less than the F150 and got 3 MPG more. This was great for the first year or so, then in September of 04, prices started going up, and it was getting more expensive to fill. I went from maybe $60 a fill to nearly $100 a fill, and the fuel blend changed so that I got fewer MPG. So it was costing even more per mile to drive it.

When I first started seeing price increases on Diesel, I looked over at my new wife and said, if the price goes any higher, you watch, the economy will go in the sewer. I was right, a few years later it did. Fuel prices affect EVERYONE, whether they own and drive a vehicle or not, because the costs of fuel get added into everything in the store. Start jacking up fuel prices again with added taxes, and that gallon of milk at $3, will become $4, $5 and so on.

We do not need more taxes, we are taxed enough already, we need spending cuts! We need accountability! Where is the money going for road repairs?

In Marengo there is talk about adding an interchange at 23 and 90, the tollway. It is reported to cost $60 million. In order to do it, Marengo needs to cough up half of it. $60 million for a few piles of dirt and asphalt. Isnt the Tollway supposed to be self supported? Isn't that the reason they collect toll money in the first place? So where does the money go?

Tax money for the schools is also wasted. Where does my $4500 in property tax I pay for schools each year go? It sure isnt going towards educating children. This is a whole other rant that I can go on.

End result, too many taxes, not enough accountability, and way too much waste. If taxes were used as the Constitution defines what the government is for, we wouldn't have such a huge deficit.

 

This is the which came first the Chicken or the Egg? Pres Clinton had a balanced budget but he also had a vibrant economy. Today's economy is deplorable. The call it the Great Recession. Just ask anyone how horable it is compared to a decade ago. There are about 320 Million Americans and only 130 to 150 Million work. The others are retired, stay at home moms, children, disabled, care to not work, cannot find employment. Guys like me who work we are paying our fair share paying for every one else. Why for the sake of sanity would I want to pay more taxes in the gas tax? Why? I pay enough taxes. Find a way to manage the money better. Forget about Europe they are not the model we as Americans want to persue. There are people driving mopeds is Europe because they cannot afford gas. Ever take a train in Europe? Homeless everywhere. There economy is much worse than ours. I never heard of anyone saying here I am Raise my taxes. That is silly. That will do nothing but lower your standard of living. If you get a chance listen to Larry Kudlow I believe his is on CNBC. He is all about fiscal responsibility in Gov. The American way that you support is throwing good money at bad. My opinion is act with prudence and make do with the money you have.